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 Post subject: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 17:15 pm 
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As is possibly apparent by now I've been researching with assistance of a little helper the ANC (Army Nursing Corp) role and uniform in Italy.

I know that theres at least two groups of females doing ETO albeit based around Normandy/France, so thought it was high time there was a thread about this.

I shall add to this over the next week (I'm not working 8) for a whoooooole 7 days 8) ) and hopefully others might join in ?

Dink :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 17:31 pm 
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dink wrote:
As is possibly apparent by now I've been researching with assistance of a little helper the ANC (Army Nursing Corp) role and uniform in Italy.

I know that theres at least two groups of females doing ETO albeit based around Normandy/France, so thought it was high time there was a thread about this.

I shall add to this over the next week (I'm not working 8) for a whoooooole 7 days 8) ) and hopefully others might join in ?

Dink :mrgreen:


Hi Dink

Thanks for your post on the Army Nurses thread, good idea to post on here with a new thread.

"Army Nurses" actually do all theatres and have Done England with the Air Evac Sqn and of course Pre Normandy and Normandy Soon in Normandy with the 91st, However for nearly a year now they have been researching the 95th In Italy and of course the 91st saw front line service in Sicily .

At Kelmarsh they will be joining the rest of the FAAA group (509th PIB) as 95th Evac Hopspital in Italy under 5th Army, just before joining 7th Army for the South Of France Dragoon operation.

Come along and meet the Team

Regards

Lee

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

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Last edited by FAAA on Sun May 24, 2009 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 18:05 pm 
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Unfortunately I won't be attending Kelmarsh as it clashes with Beltring where I will be doing my primary role of Axis.

I do however look forward to hearing from other ladies about their roles/research and I will add to this myself whilst I am able to do so in more detail over the next week whilst I have time off work.

Below is a nice link to a video that was posted on the blitzkriegbaby website by a member. It shows a good selection of ANC.
http://www.archive.org/details/ArmyNurs1945

Also some of pictures from 'And if I perish' are viewable online for anyone that hasn't seen them. http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/author ... index.html

One of the reenactors (American based - aka avengerfieldgal) has uploaded pictures of ETO nurses she has found to one place on photobucket. http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/p ... the%20ETO/

As said I've quite a bit of stuff I can add, if the ladies are interested. I've sourced full kit lists, and well alsorts.

Thanks

Dink

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 19:18 pm 
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I assume its this 91st the Army Nurses Group are doing? Have you further knowledge of anywhere online I can review their time in Italy? I can only find reference with Googles assistance to them in Africa. Leaving Tunisia to run the Evacuation Hospital in Palermo, Sicily from the end of July 1943 to October End 1943. After that they were shipped back to UK (not via Italy) to be restocked/restested etc before the push for capitulation of France (they did France, Belguim then Germany)

Interested in knowing more

Oh and a useful link on the 91st http://www.diadic.com/Duffy/91st.html

Added a bit more to this as its the only reference I can find in relation to this. Note it states those some were listed (not sent) and the sites in reference to the 59th Evac hospital. It doesn't mention the 91st going to Anzio, but states the 59th went in June 1944 after the fall of Rome (The hospital refers only to the 59th and not others).

Quote:
When the Fifth United States Army was activated, i.e. on 5 January 1943, the 59th Evac Hosp was already listed to be attached to this formation for medical support during “Operation Avalanche” (together with the 8th – 9th – 11th – 38th – 77th – and 91st Evacuation Hospitals and the 47th Surgical Hospital). The Hospital however, only shipped out to Anzio Beachhead on 7 June 1944 (after “Operation Shingle” and after the fall of Rome), to serve under Peninsular Base Section (PBS). It first replaced the 38th Evacuation Hospital which shifted to Rome, and later dug-in its Ward tents on the dangerous Beachhead area itself, together with other American units. After July, the 59th transferred to Battipaglia, in southern Italy, where the Seventh United States Army was now training for “Operation Dragoon”, the Invasion of southern France. It finally landed in France 25 August 1944, and first set up in the coastal region in support of VI Corps. It would then follow the advance of the Army Divisions proceeding further inland…


A link would be good I can't think how many sites I've read now and found nothing (maybes not see the wood for trees?) Be nice to have a hint?

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Last edited by dink on Sat May 23, 2009 20:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 19:40 pm 
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Quote:
Ft. Des Moines reports statistics compiled by the Quartermaster Corps which furnish a description of the typical woman soldier. Here’s how she "shapes up"

5’4" High
6-B Shoe
128 Pounds
Size 7 Glove
26” Waist
13" Shirt collar
22” Hat size size
9 1/2 hose


Interesting to see the average, these figures are from the ladies on signing up, not once in theatres of operation (ie when the kit was first issued to them). Please remember theres exceptions both side of this spectrum so I am NOT dictating re-enactors should be all this size (seriously I'm not lol I'm 5'7 ffs :lol: and I certainly don't have a 26" waist). Shouldn't need to add that but I am incase its twisted from my words, or used by someone else twisted for their purpose.

However it should be concluded from those figures that from further research, I note a lot of ladies actually gained weight during their time in service due to eating proper meals 3x a day.

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 20:03 pm 
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The Anzio Angels and Nettuno Nurses are covered on this website. 8) These women had it hard, bombed whilst in their tents (theres an awesome picture amongst the Life magazine ones of their Evac Hospital tent being straffed at night :shock: Amazing women 8)

http://darbysrangers.tripod.com/id76.htm

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 20:08 pm 
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Quote from 'They call them Angels'

Quote:
Their truck driver told them to jump out and hit the dirt. Doyle (a nurse with the 95th Evacuation Hospital) saw GI's crawling towards them and asked if they were coming to fetch the nurses. "Sweetheart we're all on the front line and you're ahead of us," answered one of the soldiers.


Helen Talboy, a nurse with the 95th, was a veteran of Tunisian, Sicilian, and Italian campaigns; a member of a convoy attacked by submarines; and aboard the Newfoundland when it was bombed, yet she volunteered to go to Anzio. It’s no wonder that when reporter Kenneth Dixon first saw her he wrote, “The tension was beginning to tell. Helen was one of the most jittery,” he said. “She has been through too much. She is about to go to pieces.” But his opinion of Helen Talboy soon changed.

Quote:
When German bombs hit the hospital… Helen was on duty in the surgical section, which was punctured by hundreds of shrapnel holes.
Without a moment’s hesitation, she took charge. She collected the surviving nurses, gave them bandages and first aid equipment, and started them caring for the wounded, lying crumpled and moaning over the bloody hospital area.
She supervised the first aid and saw to it that the dead were covered as quickly as possible, bringing some merciful semblance of order to the whole nightmarish scene.
The same nurses who seemed so near breaking a week ago were busy everywhere. Late last night they were still working. Nurses from other units came up and volunteered to help, but these tired veterans insisted on caring for their own.
Nearby I saw some men weeping, standing in small, shaken groups. Some of the nurses were crying too, but soundlessly-the tears on their cheeks in the pale moonlight were the only sign.
It is easy to sit in a comfortable, warm house and speculate on how brave we would all be under conditions such as those under which these nurses are working. It is even easier to speculate on our bravery if we are in actual combat theatres far enough behind the battle lines to be comparatively safe, but it is quite another thing to be in the midst of it for a prolonged period AND STILL BE ABLE TO TAKE IT.

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:30 am 
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I assume its this 91st the Army Nurses Group are doing? Have you further knowledge of anywhere online I can review their time in Italy? I can only find reference with Googles assistance to them in Africa. Leaving Tunisia to run the Evacuation Hospital in Palermo, Sicily from the end of July 1943 to October End 1943. After that they were shipped back to UK (not via Italy) to be restocked/restested etc before the push for capitulation of France (they did France, Belguim then Germany)

Should read Sicily Dink

For your MTO impression it might be better to drop the M43 Jacket and replace with the Tankers Jacket.

Gen Mark Clark (5th Army) did all he could to get his Army the Winter Jacket (Tankers) Many of the ANC units going into France with 1st US ARMY retained this Jacket and is seen more often than the M43 Jacket although the women got an issue of M43 Kit before the men.


This is now a good base for ANC General Discussion, can you kindly now delete the post on the Army Nurses unit thread.

Kindest Regards

Lee
FAAA

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:58 am 
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Hi Guys

I'm just putting together an Army Nurse impression and have with the help of Jenny White put together a really good uniform (original wool trousers with the knitted cuff basis) I am looking for a wool short that is 38 inch chest, so if anyone can help please holler.

i'm using "and if I perish" for a lot of research and have also ordered GI nightingales.....there is such a lot of fantastic stuff in "and if I..." an amazing book.

Lee I've not been introduced to you yet, I joined the rangers re-enactment group after meeting them at weymouth and have so far done east kirkby and horham with them. and Jenny Shortcake and Amanda Milly Gibbons, great gals. hopefully I will meet you at Kelmarsh or weymouth.

great thread Dink, cheers my lovely.....when I have a bit more time I'll try and contribute some more, but got a tetchy tired 3 year old at min

regards

mitten
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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:29 am 
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mitten31 wrote:
Hi Guys

I'm just putting together an Army Nurse impression and have with the help of Jenny White put together a really good uniform (original wool trousers with the knitted cuff basis) I am looking for a wool short that is 38 inch chest, so if anyone can help please holler.

i'm using "and if I perish" for a lot of research and have also ordered GI nightingales.....there is such a lot of fantastic stuff in "and if I..." an amazing book.

Lee I've not been introduced to you yet, I joined the rangers re-enactment group after meeting them at weymouth and have so far done east kirkby and horham with them. and Jenny Shortcake and Amanda Milly Gibbons, great gals. hopefully I will meet you at Kelmarsh or weymouth.

great thread Dink, cheers my lovely.....when I have a bit more time I'll try and contribute some more, but got a tetchy tired 3 year old at min

regards

mitten
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Hi Mitten

Shortcake does some stuff with us and is a CORA member. Dont have you on the list of names as yet!

Milly is FAAA and one of our new girls in Army Nurses, both great to have around.

Army Nurses is a stand along group who are part OF FAAA and Amanda is FAAA's Exec Officer and OC Army Nurses.

We will indeed be at Kelmarsh, FAAA as 509th Parachute Infantry Battalion and the Girls as 95th Evac all us in Italy Northamptonshire :)

Regards

Lee

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:34 am 
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I am looking for more info on the Olive-Drab Off-Duty Dress

Have one and know what it looks like, but does look better on my wife I have to say :oops: However I am interested to know what insignia goes on it, I know the BOS is on the collar x 1 and the US is on the other x1 and have seen it with rank bars on the shoulder boards,however was SSI on the left shoulder and if a qualified Air Evac nurse would she wear the small wings. Did the Officer choose what headdress to wear with this.

Rergards

Lee

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:54 am 
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Mitten my trousers are originals (MY GAWD THEY'RE ITCHY :lol: be warned ;) as is the shirt (I went for a mans 15" Small), the boots which are WAC double buckles, the belt and the helmet. I look forward to your input Mitten 8) nice to see someone else interested in the woollie version :mrgreen: maybes we can wear itchy trousers together at some point :lol: 8)

Lee I take you're point about the M43 (Male and Female versions) but atm that is what I am using. I have seen equal pictures during my research to back both of those, the Ike and the M41. The women in the MTO were not issued kit quite as logically as those in other theatres and it is not quite as "regimented" as those that served in say Afrika who were all issued HBT. Of course I will expand my ensemble to encompass other things and a tankers will be included in that, as well as a jeep cap, so low boots etc however as I like to use good originals as I collect as well.

Mitten the pic below is what I have sorted for myself (and if I perish is one of a few sources I've been using. The WAC veterans organisation have also been useful).

Katy of Blitzkriegbaby has the off duty dresses I believe in all shades so she would be my first port of call if asking anyone. She does have pictures on her website of these ;) a look on there would help you. She is if asked politely very helpful and her website is very useful as she has most US uniforms amongst her collection.


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Roger Out

Any photographic evidence of M43 as early as Italy would be very helpfull.

Regards

Lee

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Lee google is your friend. The nurses are not wearing HBT shirts with wool trousers (originally designed as a shirt not a jacket). There is a fantastic site where vets have put up first person accounts and their service pictures, can't find the link in my mamoth list of favourites at the moment, I could upload the pictures but as they are not mine and I have no authorisation for sharing them sadly some I have had emailed to me cannot be posted as I respect the generousity of those that have allowed me to use the pictures for my impression.

I shall also note the Quatermasters kit list for those heading to ETO/MTO theatres includes the M43 on their list, I assume you possibly have a copy of this tomb for your group? I was kindly given scans of the relevant pages by someone in America that re-enacts WAC/ANC.

The answers are out there, and whislt I am more than happy to share the things I have found that are not copywritten, I sadly do not feel comfortable with upsetting other re-enactors or collectors by sharing their information gifted to me, without their consent to do so. Harsh maybes but if I can get the information, others can too.

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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:30 pm 
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So M43 was or was not issued to Nurses in Italy!

I feel they were not from what information we have , but were issued in England and taken to Normandy, but the Tankers jacket was worn in preference. It is Certainly what our group are eventually aiming to use in the long term for these impressions.

Image

Image
Normandy US First Army Nurses

Image
Women arriving in Normandy, not ANC but WAC, However with new issue of M43 Kit

Regards

Lee

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I have always endeavoured to listen to what each and every person in a discussion had to say before venturing my own opinion. Oftentimes, my own opinion will simply represent a con-census of what I heard in the discussion. I always remember the axiom: a leader is like a shepherd. He stays behind the flock, letting the most nimble go out ahead, whereupon the others follow, not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind.”

Nelson Mandela


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 Post subject: Re: ETO/MTO ANC
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 13:01 pm 
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hey Dink.....they're very itchy aren't they and they have the BIGGEST gussett ever! it's quite off putting, there must be at aleast 10 inches of material there ha ha..!can't wait to wear it all

mitten
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