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 Post subject: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 15:20 pm 
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Real Name: Andy
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Go on then Neil,

Tell me all about San Marco in WW2.

I know a bit about them in modern times and have the greatest of respect for them. Would be interested to hear what I'd need to piece this one together.

Andy

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:57 am 
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Real Name: Neil Lawrence
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Ok, here is a scan of the uniform of the San Marco as worn in Tobruk...

Image

The San Marco were deployed to protect the perimeter. Part of the corps was also attached to the 288 Sonderverband. Elements of 288 were attached to the Sonderkommando Dora, or the German LRDG if you will.(Not very effective though, i might add). However, the San Marco operated within its own command structure. In its defence of the Tobruk perimeter, it was attacked by the joint SAS/LRDG mission. The LRDG believed it was attacking weak Italian units, but info was wrong.... The San Marco repulsed the attacks, and gave pursuit to the remaining elements of the British Commando raid. The San Marco was initially brought into the North African theatre to perform commando raids along the cost, but as so often with the more elite Italian divisions, found themselves tasked with duties unbecoming to their specialist training.

The Uniform is the basic M33 helmet, with Regia Marina anchor emblem. The uniform jacket is the standard RM over-shirt, but in tan material. Shorts are either regulation issue, or private purchase/captured British. The San Marco were the first to wear the beret, so loved by the Folgore (However, it seems the San Marco borrowed the idea from the Italian Submarine crews). Interestingly, the San Marco also had a Paratroop arm. Uniforms for this were a mixture of Grigio Verde Sailors top, with neck tie, Long bloused para trousers, M42 helmet/Beret. Whats more interesting is the fact that the San Marco also seems to be the first to come up with the concept of the 'Samuari' assault vest. Pics show the SM with this piece of equipment on.

When i find more pics of original stuff Andy, i'll post them up (On a disc somewhere).

Neil

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MAI DAUR!

IF, and only IF, there is a war, we may provide you with a camouflage hood or cap in times of wet weather (Quote from the 1936 drill manual for the REI)


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Telo Tenda Mimetico Modello 1929. Keeping Farbs dry at night since 1978

Its a Tent! Its a Poncho! Its a Ground Sheet! Its a Camouflage against the enemy. My word, its even a waterproof sleeping bag! It is not, however, German.

M33 Elmetto. Good against shrapnel. Great for grinding coffee. For that superb sweat encrusted taste.[/size]
http://ww2italianreenactment.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:20 am 
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Oooooh I like that! Desert sailor shirt! How cool is that!

Can you show me what the beret looks like?

Hmmmmmm this is becoming more than a bit interesting here....

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:24 am 
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Real Name: Why are you asking Comrade?
Group: Za Ob/WPFG Complex e i gentiluomini.
Comrade, Step away from the Nagant, :lol: I know the call of the Grigio-Verde is strong ... after a Week of L'Italia if it was not for my Undying Belief in Marxist Leninism I too would be learning to wear Putties... :shock: .... Da! it is that bad Camerati!!!..

I do wonder, after seeing Sorrento... why would you wish to Invade Mother Russia? :twisted: , I mean... WHY??... :D

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"Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?, Ja! .. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
( Lease lend material from Comrade Sandy Boots)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
( Comrade Stalin, 1928)

"Who watches The Watchmen?"... The NKVD.

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"Gesplitzenblitz !" ( Peter Sellers)

"To err is to be arrested ".
"To forgive is not within the Scale of Norms".

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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:50 am 
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At the risk of my Comrades wrath.... how tricky is that kit to get together?

I've never even looked for Italian kit...

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 13:25 pm 
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Real Name: Why are you asking Comrade?
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Camerata, You wish to be Desert Sailor?, it is a good Gag I will agree... :lol:

_________________
"Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?, Ja! .. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
( Lease lend material from Comrade Sandy Boots)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
( Comrade Stalin, 1928)

"Who watches The Watchmen?"... The NKVD.

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"Gesplitzenblitz !" ( Peter Sellers)

"To err is to be arrested ".
"To forgive is not within the Scale of Norms".

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 16:49 pm 
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Real Name: Andy
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Neil,

I've picked up the 3 Osprey Italian volumes today and had a good rumage through them.

Found this photo in the back of the desert one - is this the beret you talk of? I think have seen you guys wearing these.... but does in come in khaki? Or is it only worn with the wool uniform (I assume its wool)

Attachment:
sanmarco.jpg



And yes Comrade Viktor, the desert sailor thing is a very, very good gag 8)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 20:17 pm 
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Comrades,

This is the beret i speak of. However, at Tobruk, the normal Sailors cap would've been worn i believe. Info is scant about this. However here are some facts known...

1. The San Marco did wear the Beret, Pic's show the Grigio-Verde version.

2 Tan Berets existed. Most pics show the ADRA paratroops wearing them. Some pics show the Folgore and Nembo wearing them as well. Not seen a pic of the San Marco wearing a Tan version, but will search and ask Italian experts i know.

Here is a pic of a reenactor in a San Marco Uniform...

Image

Also check out this webblog of My Friend Andrea. Scroll down the page and you will see them in the Tropical San Marco Uniform. You'll see they are wearing the Grigio Verde Beret with this uniform.

http://associazioneitalia.blogspot.com/search/label/San%20Marco

Comrades Viktor and Kozlov. The lure of the Grigio-Verde is strong. I can feel your need to wear puttees, pantoloons and plumes. Italy is a Beautiful country.... worthy of defending eh Camerati?? :wink:

Andy, PM sent. Don't want your commisars snooping about what i have to tell you.... :lol:

Neil

_________________
MAI DAUR!

IF, and only IF, there is a war, we may provide you with a camouflage hood or cap in times of wet weather (Quote from the 1936 drill manual for the REI)


Image

Telo Tenda Mimetico Modello 1929. Keeping Farbs dry at night since 1978

Its a Tent! Its a Poncho! Its a Ground Sheet! Its a Camouflage against the enemy. My word, its even a waterproof sleeping bag! It is not, however, German.

M33 Elmetto. Good against shrapnel. Great for grinding coffee. For that superb sweat encrusted taste.[/size]
http://ww2italianreenactment.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 20:42 pm 
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Excellent!

Thanks Comrade!

Some good photos in your mate's blog there - like the Decima pics 8)

Is anyone repro'ing the webbing and the leggings? (I already have this nasty feeling those are going to be horrible to wear... I am thinking 37 pattern small packs cut up into up to the knee gaitors.... why am I even contemplating this???)

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:53 am 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:
Excellent!

Thanks Comrade!

Some good photos in your mate's blog there - like the Decima pics 8)

Is anyone repro'ing the webbing and the leggings? (I already have this nasty feeling those are going to be horrible to wear... I am thinking 37 pattern small packs cut up into up to the knee gaitors.... why am I even contemplating this???)



Comrade, This is most Unfortunate.... Duty Car is on route to your Rezidency... no need to pack.. :(

Oh, Comrade Andrei Kozlo, I have the Parmesan you wanted, Five Euro sense worth :? Duty Car :twisted: , Second "Collection" up has been filed I'm informed by Moscow Centre :twisted: ..., so please don't take up all the room in the Boot of the Car Comrade... be seeing you in a very real sense... :lol:
:D

_________________
"Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer?, Ja! .. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
( Lease lend material from Comrade Sandy Boots)

"We have internal enemies. We have external enemies. This, comrades, must not be forgotten for a single moment"
( Comrade Stalin, 1928)

"Who watches The Watchmen?"... The NKVD.

"The Devil came to me one night, he struck his claws into my hands, I prayed for him to stop but he wouldn't .....so I told him to F' off..... he did".
(An old Russia lady)

"We will fight for peace until there isn't one stone left standing on another".
(Soviet folk-saying)

"Gesplitzenblitz !" ( Peter Sellers)

"To err is to be arrested ".
"To forgive is not within the Scale of Norms".

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 17:53 pm 
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I think asking you to bring me back that cheese is what started my interest in Italian... that and the spag bol I've just had for tea :D

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 19:49 pm 
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Maro Kozlov... :wink:

Unit of 10th Arditi will intercept the aforementioned 'duty car' with As42 and TL37 desert scout cars. Do not fear. 20mm Breda cannons will make short work of the GAZ saloon.Will make up poor quota of Parmesan with panatone and parma ham, once rescued. :D

Comrade Viktor. The boot of your car is already full with chianti and grappa. Your superiors on the fourth floor will be very interested in your contra-band. Maybe a deep and searching talk will take place between you and Nurse Olga. Hope you also have Olive oil in your boot as all other lubricants in the 'observation unit's' drawer have dried up...... :twisted: :lol:

What i will say is, don't be a cutting up 37 pattern stuff!! the Material you need for this is still readily available form most good haberdashery's. Its called Hop-sack and is the same weave and thickness. Will come in a plain cream colour, but is easily died using RIT dyes.

Sotto Tenete (Pasta Ascuitta) has original pouches, and has had some repro'd. Original pouches still crop up and are pretty good price wise. Look out on Ebay (US and Italia are the best). For Italian Ebay obviously put in the search word San Marco or Regia Marina on the militaria section, or the word Buffeteria, which is the closest translation of webbing in english.

Cioa for Now

Neil

_________________
MAI DAUR!

IF, and only IF, there is a war, we may provide you with a camouflage hood or cap in times of wet weather (Quote from the 1936 drill manual for the REI)


Image

Telo Tenda Mimetico Modello 1929. Keeping Farbs dry at night since 1978

Its a Tent! Its a Poncho! Its a Ground Sheet! Its a Camouflage against the enemy. My word, its even a waterproof sleeping bag! It is not, however, German.

M33 Elmetto. Good against shrapnel. Great for grinding coffee. For that superb sweat encrusted taste.[/size]
http://ww2italianreenactment.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 20:53 pm 
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Think I may have started something here. Just got back from a weekend visiting the mother in law and saw this thread. Brilliant.

I'm waiting for a san marco tan uniform to arrive from italy, I found it on Ebay.it as Neil says search under Regia marina, san marco or battaglioni san marco. I have also just received a book about them from 1940-1943 (sotto le insegne del leone alato). It has many B&W piccies in, I'll get some posted up along with loads of questions too!!

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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 20:56 pm 
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Excllent Mike!

Would love to see those piccies!

Lets keep the info coming 8)

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 21:06 pm 
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Mike,

I always remember you collaring me at Detling last year and asking me about Italian Naval stuff. I hope i had some influence on ya! :D Once your uniform comes, put up some pics. I noticed on Ebay.It, that there are some of the Big San Marco Flags for sale. Now thats iconic. One pic I've got show's the San Marco Para Batt. marching under this huge Winged Lion banner. The flag is so big, it would completely cover the entire battalion marching underneath it!

..... Now seeing a few guys dressed up as San Marco at a show... Now that would be cool.


Folgore. San Marco. Bersaglieri. Fanteria. Alpini. All are great to do.

10th Arditi or Guastatori Assault engineers anyone? :)

Neil

_________________
MAI DAUR!

IF, and only IF, there is a war, we may provide you with a camouflage hood or cap in times of wet weather (Quote from the 1936 drill manual for the REI)


Image

Telo Tenda Mimetico Modello 1929. Keeping Farbs dry at night since 1978

Its a Tent! Its a Poncho! Its a Ground Sheet! Its a Camouflage against the enemy. My word, its even a waterproof sleeping bag! It is not, however, German.

M33 Elmetto. Good against shrapnel. Great for grinding coffee. For that superb sweat encrusted taste.[/size]
http://ww2italianreenactment.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Reenacting San Marco
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 22:43 pm 
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Found a few more pics of san marco at Tobruk:
Image

and a parade?
Image

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O suffer us not to sink under the weight of our sins or the violence of the enemy
Sotto le insegne del leone alato


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