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P.S.: I agree with GlenM that the FSSF guy in the second picture may be wearing a gas cape with face cover removed, while that in the first picture seems to be wearing a poncho.

Ye know, I wonder if that was what the FSSF got and Sam remembers it as a poncho?...That is, if it has a hood?...any pictures?

Having just purchased a gas cape dated Jan. 14th 1944, I have observed: There are no buttons/poppers which seem to be on the gas cape/poncho in the picture...The way it is packed produces "hundreds" of folds making it look like wee squares when laid out or worn (Yes I do know they could have been pressed out with wear, but this would have to be prolonged wear, and not as this picture is, a wounded soldier who is just waiting in line to be seen, the bulge under the "cape" indicates he still has his webbing/Mussette on)...There is a clear hood, actually an extension of the cape making a box shape....

From looking at this gas cape I have in my possesion, I don't think the gas cape/poncho in the picture is indeed a Gas cape, but is infact a poncho....

However, I may yet be proved wrong....

I did clock the lack of folds on whatever it is, but those dots that could be buttons/poppers aren't in the right place for a poncho anyway (apparently in the middle of the item in question.

Plus you can't see the (what would be press-studded-together) joins from the front and back of the poncho in this photo, which, given the amount of material you can see, you should be able to spot somewhere on it, surely?

Hope that makes sense...

Cheers,
Glen.

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"

Glen

He has the thing draped over his shoulders, and the poppers are at the edge of item, where they are on the poncho, I will shortly (make an attempt to/at) reconstruct photo and post...With both items....If I where in this chaps state I would aswell, it's easier to pull back for observing other than having to go about taking the helmet off and pulling over the head etc....Wot ye think?

Paul

Oh, okay, I can see where you're going with that. That would explain the vast amount of material you can see in the photo with no edges.

Althought continue on with the reconstruction photo please, as it'd be worth it to verify.

Cheers,
Glen.

PS Have dug out those boxes and will take some photos soon!

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"

The other photo from the set of two: After you mentioned the "buttons" in the wrong place (in the centre) I had another look and looking again and at this one, there seems to be two rows of buttons...I don't think this is two shelter halfs, and it doesn't seem to be a poncho (on reflection) and not a gas cape, if neither of them what is it?

That bloody helmet is in the way!

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Gordon the Gobshite
"We know you don't like us, but we don't care" Millwall F.C.

Annex No. 1 to Admin Order No. 2 (posted by Perdurabo) is quite clear about the fact the FSSF was issued ponchos in November, 1943. I do not see any reason why we should imagine a clerk to have mistyped "poncho" for "parka" or any other such item, unless we find evidence to the contrary.

When they got the ponchos, I do not know; what type, I would say the syntehtic resin coated ones (at such a date). And, obviously, hoodless. USMC ponchos? Seems doubtful.

This is to say that, in view of that type of documentation, identifying the item in the photos becomes less crucial to the issue. In any case, I still think the guy is not wearing a poncho, although it's hard to tell from the pictures. He may even be wearing just some type of tarpaulin, not an article of clothing

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Kilroy

Hi Kilroy...
Good enough coments, however, these photos where taken around the the ledge we beleive was where Frederick's CO was, just below the final cliff face to La Difensa, still 3,000 feet up, a long way to howk a (heavy canvass) tarp...But, again, never say never....

I could be wrong about the actual location, doubt it as it was a collection centre for prisoners and an aid station, one thing I do know is it's up La Difensa...

Somethign we have thought about, when the FSSF traded the Johnsons for the RS explosive, maybe they had some ponchos thrown in (?)...Another is, the unit had the choice of the gear available to them and they could pick and chose (like they took the mopuintain pants...Left out the woolen ski pants,a nd mountain jacket..But also chose the new experimental M43, alonmg with the Bazooka)...Maybe they got ones issued, maybe the got the old WWI stock as the QM decided they would be best...Who knows eh? (that';s why I love this hobby)...

What do people think of the material on this item? I reckon it looks "crinkly" to me - i.e. not cotton/tarpaulin. As well as looking fairly thin.

Not sure what that implies though....

_________________
Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"

I agree it does look crinkly - more like some sort of Gas related Item than a poncho. GAS stuff tends to be like that - Possibly because they are throwaway once theyve been used ????

German gas cape ? I have one somwhere but have never opened

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505th PIR, 327th GIR, 359th IR, 70th TB, 168th IR, FSSF, USMC

I was actually thinking that this cap or whatever could have been of german nature....

With two rows of "buttons" down the middle (on the back of the trooper in photo)...?..I like a good mystery...

italian perhaps than???

Was going through my battle site finds and this is something we found on La Difensa, at the time we where flumixed, now I know wot it is...The remains of a gas cape found in a fox hole, diferent colour, but same material...There ye go...

To get back to the photos "on" La Defensa...Just seen some blown up ones of the same in Angelos museum, and the "folds" are actually the seams, the "buttons" is the impressions of buttons they make when ye fold/unfold it, how do I know, got one here, unfolded it, left it out in the (Italian) rain, and the impressions we see in the photos posted by "perdurabo" come up/are identical....

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."