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 Post subject: ATS Serge BD which one ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 23:10 pm
Posts: 452
Location: Yorkshire
Real Name: Dave
Group: Independent
A quick question relating to style of ATS BD . I've scoured the internet looking for a genuine Serge BD but obviously no luck , so I've been looking for a repo of good copy/quality , again can't seem to find anyone .

The next move would be getting a mans BD ,before I go "wasting money" :roll: what would be the correct one to go for P37 or P40, I'm sure I've seen photo's of the ATS wearing both ?

Thanks

Dave


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 14:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 17:58 pm
Posts: 63
Location: The Netherlands
Real Name: Pauline
Group: VMD
Hi Dave,

it depends on what you want to portray. For an oversees 1945 impression, a P40 Austerity would be best, otherwise I'd say P37 or P40.
Photos of ATS wearing men's BDs are most often early war, in the UK and wearing P37 or P40 ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 20:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 165
Location: Suffolk
Real Name: Georgie
I'd echo what Pauline says. Early on in the war ATS didn't have a specific version of the BD as it wasn't thought that they needed one! However, as the war progressed and they fulfilled more and more roles it soon became apparent that the SD was not suitable for certain work. At this stage ATS were initially issued with men's BDs because there wasn't a female equivalent although nearly all had the trousers re-tailored to have a side fastening (it wasn't thought proper for ladies to wear trousers with flies!) so it's worth bearing that in mind. Even as the war progressed there was a shortage of women's BDs so many ATS continued to wear a re-tailored men's set. Only towards the end of the war did supply match demand and by then most BDs worn were of the austerity pattern. Having said that, BDs were issued and had to be worn until they were unserviceable, therefore by 1945 you would see ATS in a mixture of all types.
Beware of women's repros. Most are made to a modern fit whereas the original BDs didn't fit! That is the backside was huge (yes dear your bum will look big in those!!!) for practical reasons not for fashion, so any nicely snug, figure enhancing trousers are just wrong.
Good luck


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 15:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 17:58 pm
Posts: 63
Location: The Netherlands
Real Name: Pauline
Group: VMD
ackackgirl wrote:
I'd echo what Pauline says. Early on in the war ATS didn't have a specific version of the BD as it wasn't thought that they needed one! However, as the war progressed and they fulfilled more and more roles it soon became apparent that the SD was not suitable for certain work. At this stage ATS were initially issued with men's BDs because there wasn't a female equivalent although nearly all had the trousers re-tailored to have a side fastening (it wasn't thought proper for ladies to wear trousers with flies!) so it's worth bearing that in mind. Even as the war progressed there was a shortage of women's BDs so many ATS continued to wear a re-tailored men's set. Only towards the end of the war did supply match demand and by then most BDs worn were of the austerity pattern. Having said that, BDs were issued and had to be worn until they were unserviceable, therefore by 1945 you would see ATS in a mixture of all types.
Beware of women's repros. Most are made to a modern fit whereas the original BDs didn't fit! That is the backside was huge (yes dear your bum will look big in those!!!) for practical reasons not for fashion, so any nicely snug, figure enhancing trousers are just wrong.
Good luck


I've heard so many people mentioning the shortage of ATS BDs, but never ever read anything about it. 99% of photos of ATS in BDs are of the ATS pattern. Besides, I was wondering, the VHK (the Dutch part of the ATS) were all issued with ATS BDs. If there was indeed a shortage, they wouldn't have had those, would they?

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 19:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 165
Location: Suffolk
Real Name: Georgie
Interesting. I don't think there was actually a shortage. More like it took the War Office a while to acknowledge that the ATS would need BDs so in 1939 and 1940 some ended up wearing men's BDs until the tailors got to work on it. I have read personal memoirs that state they were initially issued with men's clothing which they complained at bitterly and I know a lady who had men's gear for two years before she managed to get them to issue her with women's BDs although she may have been unlucky.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 20:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 20:23 pm
Posts: 196
ATS BD does seem to be quite scarce. BD trousers in particular seem scarce and examples of either pattern can command high prices eg £150+ (I've seen heavily mothed examples with silly prices!). WWII dated Jackets also seem scarce and can command high prices. A cheaper alternative is the 1950s pattern BD jackets - close enough for all but the closest inspection and can either be altered or simply slip a buckle on to the waist tab! Skirts make a good alternative to BD trousers and both WWII dated and 50's (identical) examples can be found for about £20. Set up some searches on Ebay (try all the women's services inc post-war rather than just ATS) and trawl the trader stalls at the larger shows. Good luck!


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