WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums

Uniting UK Re-enactors since 2003
 

It is currently Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:26 am

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:44 am 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 15:23 pm
Posts: 5
Real Name: Lisa Atkin
Group: RAFA Calendar Girls
Hi, we are the RAFA Calendar Girls, a group of women associated with the RAF (either wives, girlfriends or serving members) who are putting together a 1940's themed calendar based on the women of the war - http://www.rafacalendargirls.org.uk, and the proceeds of our calendar and the corresponding fundraising events are going to RAFA.

Our next photoshoot is based around the women of the Air Transport Auxiliary, and we were hoping someone out there may be able to help us source five costumes for this, for as cheap as possible. Even parts of uniforms would help. Can anyone help us, or know anyone who could?

Thanks, Emma - RAFA Calendar Girls x


Top
 

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username
Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:42 am 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 15:23 pm
Posts: 5
Real Name: Lisa Atkin
Group: RAFA Calendar Girls
Just want to reassure you that the calendar is not 'pin up' in the slightest. Each month is inspired by the different roles women undertook during WWII. Throughout our journey we have found photos that we have tried to recreate and have taken inspiration from. To date, we have photographed as the Women's Land Army and WAAFs and would now like to feature the women of the ATA. With all our shoots, we aim to recreate an actual picture and avoid anything that may be considered as provocative or 'pin up'. Our calendar aims to show people what the Women in WWII actually did and will be suitable for the whole family. Please visit our website (www.rafacalendargirls.org.uk) for more information.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:07 pm 
4000+ Poster
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:20 am
Posts: 4496
Location: UK
Real Name: Sean Tighe
Group: AFRA
Good luck with your search.
ATA uniforms are quite a rare beast these days and as such are rather expensive. Even a single button can fetch silly money.

_________________
http://www.afra.org.uk
better by design
Image
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
"Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is."


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 19:16 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 165
Location: Suffolk
Real Name: Georgie
Ditto. ATA uniforms are like Rocking horse poo! You can sort of get away with wearing a civil defence battledress re-badged, but then you still have to source one of those, although they're easier to come by. You might find it easier to get some members to send you existing photos of themselves or friends dressed as ATA, rather than try and source one yourselves. I wouldn't go for hiring one. I haven't seen a hire company that does one correctly. Usually too fancy dress!


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 19:37 pm 
1000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 14:49 pm
Posts: 1157
Location: Aberystwyth, Ceredigion
Real Name: Adrian Hollis
Group: AFRA, portray- RA AA gunner, 9th AF pilot
If you search ATA on eBay, there are a few repro badges for sale on there. However, I have seen repro buttons cost upward of £60!!

The best bet, as mentioned above, is to search for Civil Defence battledress, but also as stated, these are hard to come by themselves....

_________________
Portraying my great uncles....

Lance Bombardier Bryce R. Hollis 89 Bty, 35th LAA RA. Captured by Japanese on Java 8/3/42

1st Lt Delmore (Del) Meier, 314th TS, 31s TG, 9th USAAF. Flying C-47's from RAF Grove


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:02 am 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 15:23 pm
Posts: 5
Real Name: Lisa Atkin
Group: RAFA Calendar Girls
Thank you for your help. We think we may have possibly chosen the most difficult group of women to inspire our shoot, but our hunt will continue. A collector has suggested getting WAAF uniforms and dying and re-badging them which we were hoping to avoid doing. Off to the ATA museum soon so fingers crossed their historian can advise us on how to proceed and still look authentic.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:38 am 
4000+ Poster
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:20 am
Posts: 4496
Location: UK
Real Name: Sean Tighe
Group: AFRA
I'm not sure WAAF uniforms are the right cut to be dyed and rebadged for ATA?

_________________
http://www.afra.org.uk
better by design
Image
"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
"Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is."


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 21:01 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am
Posts: 165
Location: Suffolk
Real Name: Georgie
ATA uniforms were identical to WAAF officers uniforms, but unlike WAAF officers uniforms they fastened on the female side. I wouldn't recommend dying a WAAF uniform for three reasons, one the dye doesn't take too well and is likely to come out patchy, two, it would be sacrilege to ruin an authentic WW2 uniform, finally, WAAF officers uniforms are also difficult to get hold of. I know some people have used police uniforms, but you need to find the old navy blue ones (not black) and ones with the right cut. Don't envy you trying to do this one. I have an ATA uniform that I had tailor made for me but it cost £400, so not cheap. The originals are so rare that most of them are in museums and others in private collections mostly gathering dust I suspect.
However, on the plus side, if you did manage to source an old police uniform then you don't have to buy ATA buttons as many ATA had plain black buttons and civil defence BDs didn't have those buttons either. Also there are some decent reproducers of insignia.
Many people think of the ATA as all female pilots, but it's worth remembering that only 10% of the ATA pilots were female the rest were men and that women carried out many other roles within the ATA from medic, to flight engineer, to MT driver.
Good luck, with your searching and feel free to PM me if you want to discuss any of the above.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 22:01 pm 
1000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 14:49 pm
Posts: 1157
Location: Aberystwyth, Ceredigion
Real Name: Adrian Hollis
Group: AFRA, portray- RA AA gunner, 9th AF pilot
I did want to do a male ATA uniform, but can't find the old police tunics anywhere either!!

_________________
Portraying my great uncles....

Lance Bombardier Bryce R. Hollis 89 Bty, 35th LAA RA. Captured by Japanese on Java 8/3/42

1st Lt Delmore (Del) Meier, 314th TS, 31s TG, 9th USAAF. Flying C-47's from RAF Grove


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 14:35 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 16:52 pm
Posts: 70
Real Name: Vicky Walling
Group: independent
The WAAF uniforms won't take a dye, Ive seen the results.

ATA tunics arent identical to WAAF at all. The pocket cut is diffrent for a start. Richard Knight is going to copy an original from a mate of mine. But that wont help the original posters.

Vicks.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 17:37 pm 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:37 am
Posts: 3586
Location: Hellfire Corner
Real Name: Gonville Aloysius Fudgewudden-McPoodle
Group: Oh, God, pretty much everyone it seems
I think part of the problem is the number of female ATA wallahs was rather small - 166 to be precise. Wouldn't be surprised if there were more female BOAC flying boat launch crews...

_________________
BRITISH OFFICER: Hey man, what's shakin'. What's the story with this valley? This a good place to live, you think?
NATIVE: It is very fertile. My family has lived here for many generations.
BRITISH OFFICER: Awesome. I'll put my mansion right here sorta where you're standing. Hey, what's with the triangle things?
NATIVE: Those are the sacred pyramids where my ancestors are buried.
BRITISH OFFICER: Cool. There any kinda zombie curse or anything we should know about? I mean, I want to pillage'em, but I don't want to cause no problems.
NATIVE: Our people lie merely asleep in their graves, waiting to shriek forth and bring agonising death to any who would dare disturb their peace.
BRITISH OFFICER: Be serious.
NATIVE: ...in truth the curse is probably apocryphal.
BRITISH OFFICER: Wicked. Carter, bust out the Gatling guns! I want to be revered as a God by teatime.

True story


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 21:50 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 26
ATA for men is (supposed to be) identical to RAF officer and ATA for women is (supposed to be) identical to WAAF officer but fastens on the female side - but in very dark blue fabric.

The way the uniform was made was a semi-private purchase scheme where the acquirer went to a tailor and got it made to measure to a specification whilst BOAC paid via the ATA and whilst they're all outwardly the same design (RAF/WAAF) there is some differences in the pockets which I suspect is due to civilian tailoring and different views on what the specification said, though I can't confirm this. Note for instance the following photo taken in 1940.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/images/onli ... 4-62LG.jpg

Note that Pauline Gower (far right) is wearing a male pattern jacket, something which I strongly suspect was merely given to her when she was setting up the women's section (it was soon swapped for a female cut) whilst Jennie Broad (second from left) has triangular cut breast pockets as opposed to the RAF/WAAF type cut of the pockets of the others. As well as this belts differ in which side they've got them fastening, though this is probably something easily resolved!

The same differences applies to pictures of ATA BDs which were not standard issue as far as I can tell and don't regularly appear on that many photos.

In response to the original poster however: ATA stuff of any description is RARE and most of the major museums such as IWM and the RAFM have only a very limited collection which is almost all Pilot or Flight Engineer Officer of a male pattern. No Non-Officer Flight Engineer, Operations Officers, Adjutants or Medical uniforms survive with the exception of one ambulance driver as far as I'm aware. The Civil Defence BD is the cheap way of doing it, but from research I've been doing lately I'm coming to the conclusion that this might have been worn with Service Dress Trousers....

Good luck! A repro is rather expensive...


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:25 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 15:23 pm
Posts: 5
Real Name: Lisa Atkin
Group: RAFA Calendar Girls
Yes, our research has proven to be quite futile so we are now sadly reworking the concept of the photo shoot but will be including information about the ATA in our introductory blurb. It is a shame that the ATA in general seems to be forgotten.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:57 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2013 16:52 pm
Posts: 70
Real Name: Vicky Walling
Group: independent
What makes you think theyre forgotten? There are a ton of books on them and lots of girls doing ATA at shows lately. Not forgotten at all, just difficult uniform to find due to the rarity.

Vicks.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 13:49 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 26
They've only really been recognised recently and come to some degree of prominance. Back before 2000 there were only a few books published on them by the people that were there. 'The forgotten pilots' by Lettice Curtis and 'Golden Wings' by Alison King being obvious examplea besides the must read 'Brief Glory'.

The 90% of men who served in ATA are still hugely eclipsed by the women, many think it was an entirely female service....


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 13:55 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 26
An easy way to do it Lisa would be to try and recreate the famous Maureen Dunlop photo which is an upper body shot where she has no jacket on but is carrying flying gear. All you'd need is blue WAAF pattern shirt and black RAF pattern tie. You can see a glimpse of navy blue trousers on it but with some artistic license this could be sorted.

Just a thought.


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron