WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums

Uniting UK Re-enactors since 2003
 

It is currently Fri Dec 13, 2019 14:24 pm

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: SOE Boots
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 19:39 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:45 am
Posts: 385
Location: West Yorks
Does anyone know if the agents parachuted into occupied countries wore a boot similar to the 43 pattern escape boots,in that the tops (not fur lined,and not as high)could be cut away leaving a shoe?.
Once again any help is greatly appreciated.

Gary


Top
 

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username
Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 20:48 pm 
2000+ Poster
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 13:48 pm
Posts: 2392
from a few pics i've seen it looks as though soe agents wore their civilian clothes with normal shoes, then just get into the jump smock. i'll ask around though.

Paul.


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject: Re: SOE Boots
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 18:52 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 18:04 pm
Posts: 298
Location: St. Paul, MN, USA
Sea Soldier wrote:
Does anyone know if the agents parachuted into occupied countries wore a boot similar to the 43 pattern escape boots,in that the tops (not fur lined,and not as high)could be cut away leaving a shoe?.
Once again any help is greatly appreciated.

Gary


You wore civillian shoes. If you were a woman, you jumped in heels. (what was the quote about Ginger Rogers, she did everything Fred Asiter did, but backwards and in high heels :D

Think about it, you're check for any evidence you'd been in England then get British boots. :shock:

_________________
Elliott "Jimmy" James,
138 (Special Duty) Squadron

Image

�Only birds and fools fly by day; only bats and bloody fools fly by night.� - Fg. Off. James McCarins, 161 Squadron RAF


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:51 am 
 Profile

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:45 am
Posts: 385
Location: West Yorks
EWJ
Thinking along your lines they will have to leave their American pistol and their British made knife behind as well.
The boots I have,if they are what I think they are, have no markings whatsoever to give away their origin.
After hiding your parachute,sorbo helmet and jump suit the old high heels would take a bit of a bashing,must have been made of better stuff in those days!!.

Gary


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 13:07 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 13:01 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Brummie
I recently read that SOEs were often dressed in the clothes of refugees from France so to blend in all the better. Apparently there were considerable differences in the cut, tailoring and types of cloth used in France at the time.

_________________
Kick ’em in the Axis

Hélène Aimée
FFI OSS
HQ Co 2nd Ranger Bn
Ranger Re-enactments


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 13:57 pm 
2000+ Poster
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 13:48 pm
Posts: 2392
theres a semi-clear picture on the harrington museum website:

http://harringtonmuseum.org.uk/801st492nd.htm


on the 14th pic down you can see the 2 agents in jump suits, the man appears to be wearing boots (look more like mountain climbing boots with the claws on the bottom). the female agents shoes are covered by shadow but look too big to be normal shoes.

Another interesting thing to note. on the 17th picture further down the page of an operational group members in a C47, one of them appears to be carrying an owen smg (right side, 2nd or 3rd back).

cut and finish to continental clothing was different to styles in the uk at the time, but also fabrics were on heavy ration aswell. so anything synthetic was very rare, and often clothing was recycled or made into something else.
yes, ive heard of agents being parachuted in wearing refugees clothing aswell, but not able to confirm it.

Paul


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:11 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:36 am
Posts: 662
Your "Owen" is a Reising carbine... OSS bought nearly the whole production run and they were common in the early OGs.

PJ

_________________
Lest We Forget


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:28 pm 
2000+ Poster
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 13:48 pm
Posts: 2392
ahhh ok, never seen a reising with a front pistol grip before, although looking at it the compensator on the barrel looks more like a reising:

Image

Image

i stand corrected :D

Paul.


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:33 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:36 am
Posts: 662
Take a look at the photos pages of "special forces in the invasion of France" Shows lots of Reisings with pistol grips on one of the early OG missions...

PJ

_________________
Lest We Forget


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 14:36 pm 
2000+ Poster
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 13:48 pm
Posts: 2392
ive not long started that book, but hadnt looked at the photos yet, will look when i get home, thanks :D

wasnt the reising prone to some sort of failure or difficulty to load? never really read into the gun itself.

Paul.


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:36 am 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:36 am
Posts: 662
OGs with Reisings with pistol grips.

Also note their use of a British Para helmet and the small emroidered national flags.

_________________
Lest We Forget


Last edited by canloan on Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:56 am 
 Profile

Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 16:20 pm
Posts: 120
Location: YORKSHIRE
Hi `much has been written about soe equipment , compases ,silk maps ink pens that fired darts etc , my belief is that alot of this kit was not infact issued to agents but parachuted /flown in in bulk and distributed to resistance groups , some agents did indeed carry this kit but it all depends on your task , if you were to assist the maquis in the vosage mountains for six months ok , but to pass your self off as a waiter in a paris cafe perhaps not . Soe obtained large numbers of european civillian clothing personal items from refugees to kit out their agents these were sterilised right down to the correct fluff in the bottom of the suit pockets ,if an agent was going to France the watch on his wrist had to be French , not british manufacture if she was going to Holland he shoe laces had to be of the correct manufacture , in the early war years several women agents were captured because they had used english cosmetics , one was caught coz she was wearing a perfume that the police man recognised as an english one another guy was spotted because he ate a bar of english chocolate despite having no wrapper. Several SOE
memoirs state quite clearly that the agent once greeted by his reception team would be asked to turn out his pockets and get rid of this tell tale equipment ,much the same way as when the RAF ESCAPE DEPT got up and running they would take small passport size photos of the aircrew in civilian dress so they could carry these incase of being shot down to help assist in creating forged papers id cards ,unfortunately many of the early /mid war photos showed the aircrew member wearing a nice ENGLISH suit with a dashing RAF or university tie !
PARACHUTING agents in to theatre was not that wide spread as seen in the action films as it was decided too risky or unpredictable the Lysander aicraft was more popular as indeed use of small boats , agood few agents went ashore from neutral ships when they docked and another overlooked point is that during the war neutral civilian airlines continued to fly in to europe this was used many times , the agent would just pose as a neutral civillian , not as exciting perhaps but safer ,regards Puwash.


Last edited by CAPTAIN PUGWASH on Tue Nov 06, 2007 15:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:40 pm 
4000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:09 am
Posts: 4731
Location: Worcestershire.
Real Name: 'Toff Life.
Group: Summer of '44.
commando sniper wrote:
ive not long started that book, but hadnt looked at the photos yet, will look when i get home, thanks :D

wasnt the reising prone to some sort of failure or difficulty to load? never really read into the gun itself.

Paul.


Finished it yet? ;)

The Reising M55 - from what I've read, wasn't so much due to failure (though it was quite tempermental in anything other than perfect conditions), but was mainly due to the fact it had a absurd rate of fire, and stupidly small magazines (12 and 20 round if I remember correctly).

_________________
Elitism? What's the problem with it?


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:34 am 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
commando sniper wrote:
ive not long started that book, but hadnt looked at the photos yet, will look when i get home, thanks :D

wasnt the reising prone to some sort of failure or difficulty to load? never really read into the gun itself.

Paul.

Paul, the Reising was adopted by the USMC as their SMG, however, it was a very high maintenance weapon, useless for the demands made upon it in the Pacific. But, those weapons sitting idle after Guadalcanal could have been put to use. In the photo, I reckon there is at least one UDM 1942 - the guy in the centre. (edit: the guy on the right has one too....)

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Last edited by Oggy on Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:43 am 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
As for UDM 42 - a Marlin Weapon:

http://books.google.com/books?id=iRb3io ... A2-PA74,M1

Page 73 - the UDM was 9mm, so it was perfect for Guerilla warfare (plus I believe it was the only 9mm weapon available off the shelf - the Grease Gun had to be adapted).....

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 14:18 pm 
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 9:21 am
Posts: 665
Location: Scotland, Munich
[quote="
wasnt the reising prone to some sort of failure or difficulty to load? never really read into the gun itself.

Paul.[/quote]
Paul, the Reising was adopted by the USMC as their SMG, however, it was a very high maintenance weapon, useless for the demands made upon it in the Pacific. But, those weapons sitting idle after Guadalcanal could have been put to use. In the photo, I reckon there is at least one UDM 1942 - the guy in the centre. (edit: the guy on the right has one too....)[/quote]

I remember reading "War Machine" magazine as a kid. In the edition covering SMG's I am sure it mentions the USMC actually dumping a load into a river as they were too finicky. Just what I read

_________________
Gluck Ab!


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: