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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 23:02 pm 
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trade badges interested in what is acceptable within reason


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 23:22 pm 
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TALLERTHANBETTY wrote:
.............Out of interest, will it be British units only as I know there's a few good lads around with French kit?........


I've asked some Dutch re-enactors, and there are several men interested to take part in Dutch 1940 uniforms. If you want I can poll the interest of some 1940 Belgian reenacters too :!:

Frederik Loggen = Naaficook

_________________
"NAAFICOOK" is in real life known as Frederik Loggen from the Netherlands. He collects WW2 militaria in general, but specialises in WW2 FEMALE-uniforms (Commenwealth only).
My profile-photo was made in 1974, when I was reenacting Naval-Bomb-Disposal during the family's summerholiday on the Normandy beaches.
(Allthough I didn't know at that time there was a thing called reenactment, and YES the bomb is LIVE!)
You can SKYPE me, my ID = floggen


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 23:28 pm 
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Trade depends on what you can carry off.

Weapon trades- Crossed Rifles, MG, LMG, LG
Artillery-Surveyor, Range Taker, Height Taker, Search Light Operator, Layer
MISC - Articifer, Bugler, Drummer,

This is a few ideas, not an exhaustive list.

_________________
Simon Tierney
Chief Chinthe & Commanding Officer
The Far Setting Sun Far East Living History Group
Portraying Column 44, 3rd (CHINDIT) Indian Inf. Div.

www.farsettingsun.co.uk


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 Post subject: e-tools?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:35 am 
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were just the early shovel type e-tools used or were the pick/handle type used by the BEF as well?

cheers
Tony


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:38 am 
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BORDERGAZ wrote:
1st, 4th and 5th Batt Border Regt were there as well.

With regards to water bottles, was it not common practice to place them in the small pack!

I would say that gaiters would be of the web taps with brass ends type.

Regards
Gary

That's what it was designed for.........initial design called for nothing to hang below the belt (even the prototype had a small shovel attached diagonally on the pack). With regards to the NoIII & bayonet, it was due to be replaced by the No4 & Spike and was not catered for.......
The fact that Regimental Standing Orders decreed that more & more kit should be carried on the Soldier (as opposed to in the Large Pack - Washing & Shaving Kit, Boot Care kit etc) doomed the Squaddie to having the bottle flapping around....

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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 Post subject: Re: e-tools?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:42 am 
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tonystandefer wrote:
were just the early shovel type e-tools used or were the pick/handle type used by the BEF as well?

cheers
Tony

There'd be no way to carry them, unless you were issued with '08 webbing (not such an improbability, since there is evidence of BD and '08 in footage of troops returning from Dunkirk)

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:54 am 
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Quote:
were just the early shovel type e-tools used or were the pick/handle type used by the BEF as well?

cheers
Tony

The 1939 short shovel type was around, not the 1941 introduced and named 1937 pattern entrenching tool, modelled on the WW1 entrinching tool!
Covers for the 1939 model are around! And even some ABL versions of that too!

Rob


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:30 am 
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Oggy wrote:
BORDERGAZ wrote:
With regards to water bottles, was it not common practice to place them in the small pack!

That's what it was designed for.........initial design called for nothing to hang below the belt (even the prototype had a small shovel attached diagonally on the pack). With regards to the NoIII & bayonet, it was due to be replaced by the No4 & Spike and was not catered for.......
The fact that Regimental Standing Orders decreed that more & more kit should be carried on the Soldier (as opposed to in the Large Pack - Washing & Shaving Kit, Boot Care kit etc) doomed the Squaddie to having the bottle flapping around....


Oggy,

Am I to assume you are mocking me here?

Gary

_________________
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http://www.vera39-45.blogspot.com/

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:38 am 
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BORDERGAZ wrote:
Oggy wrote:
BORDERGAZ wrote:
With regards to water bottles, was it not common practice to place them in the small pack!

That's what it was designed for.........initial design called for nothing to hang below the belt (even the prototype had a small shovel attached diagonally on the pack). With regards to the NoIII & bayonet, it was due to be replaced by the No4 & Spike and was not catered for.......
The fact that Regimental Standing Orders decreed that more & more kit should be carried on the Soldier (as opposed to in the Large Pack - Washing & Shaving Kit, Boot Care kit etc) doomed the Squaddie to having the bottle flapping around....


Oggy,

Am I to assume you are mocking me here?

Gary
No I'm, not, far from it.......That was the initial design requirement believe it or not. Brian Davis shows the Prototype on trials in 32-34, and the water bottle is not hanging down. In the 37 Webbing manual the Introduction states that 'It is easy to assemble and adjust; and possesses the the important feature that no articles are suspended below the waist line (exept the bayonet and Officers Haversack) to impede the wearer.'
It then goes on: 'A large Haversack is therefore carried on the back and contains Rations, Waterbottle and other necessaries' (there's the problem, what the WO considered 'necessaries' and what Regiments thought).
And Finally: ' These same shoulder straps are are also used for carrying the 1908 Pack when desired - the Haversack then being transferred to the left side of the equipment attached top the ends of the braces. The Waterbottle in carrier is then taken out of the Haversack and attached to the ends of the braces at the Right side of the equipment.'
So, the only time the bottle should hang from the Braces was in FSMO (the Appendix at the end also lists the weights etc & the bottle is in the haversack)
Sorry if it seems that I've offended you, or insulted your intelligence in any way.
Ian

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:37 am 
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jonheyworth wrote:
I am curious at to what others think but perhaps it is better if I put up my list and let people critisise/comment on it

Rough or smooth finish steel helmet with 3 piece chin strap - sacking cover, a/g curtain, regimental flash acceptable
1937 pattern Battle Dress blouse and trousers - ideally unlined collar and single pleat FD pocket and tabbed trousers
gaiters with leather straps and brass buckles
collarless shirt - ideally with metal buttons
ammunition boots and leather laces - ideally with fully studded soles
F.S. cap with badge
Brass or cloth slip on titles

37 pattern web belt
MkI pouches
single piece construction cross straps - paired
small pack with single piece L straps
1907 british manufacture bayonet and scabbard with webbing frog - not the universal frog with spike bayonet slit
waterbottle with blue enamel and light coloured felt
skeleton pattern waterbottle carrier, ideally with side popper
SMLE rifle sling

All web to be blancoed light pea -pickering- green and have brass fittings

MkVII respirator case - blancoed or unblancoed
Plain anti-gas cape

OPTIONAL

early pattern entrentching tool and cover
A/G brassard
50 round bandolier with cloth as opposed to web strap
camouflaged groundsheet/cape


SMLE rifle
MKI Bren dovetailed & dated 39 or 40 only with early flash hider, adjustable bipod, butt strap and butt handle with unblancoed sling
Boys A/T rifle

what do you say ?


[/b] as above but with the following aditions/changes to the above :

Battle dress must be British manufactured or a good reproduction of British manufacture ( Pegasus recommended )
Gaiters leather straps or brass ended webbing straps
MKV or MkVII respirator case
Appropriate trade badges may be worn if pre-approved
Unblancoed Bren spares wallet with Ben gun
Spare barrel bag unblancoed for Bren No2 and if you are a lunatic, Bren triod with unblancoed web carrying harness and unblancoed utility pouches
37 pattern large pack with WW1 style or 1937 pattern greatcoat, blanket and plimsoles to be carried in unit transport
SMLE rifle must be of pre 1940 British manufacture
Cartridge carriers may be worn by non infantry troops
Brown rubberised groundsheet or groundsheet cape may be used
leather trouser belt and jacknife tab or jacknife with string lanyard may be worn

BANNED Foreign made BD, kilts, DMS boots, any post 1942 modified economy BD, late war groundsheets, tommy guns, service dress and 08 webbing ( we are not doing MONS, I know it was there but it's not the perception )


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:07 am 
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Hi Jonhey

Any idea where to get plimsols from in real sizes?
Is this an 100% need for taking part in the 2010 event?

Cheers

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Gary Bainbridge
Summer of '44 LHG.

Please support the Arnhem Fellowship
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:28 am 
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awfull nice to put them on for a few minutes but not a strict requirement !


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:28 am 
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see yahoo groups dunkirk 2010


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 14:07 pm 
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naaficook wrote:
TALLERTHANBETTY wrote:
.............Out of interest, will it be British units only as I know there's a few good lads around with French kit?........


I've asked some Dutch re-enactors, and there are several men interested to take part in Dutch 1940 uniforms. If you want I can poll the interest of some 1940 Belgian reenacters too :!:

Frederik Loggen = Naaficook


Personally speaking I think that would be a good thing, having other nationalities along will increase to the overall effect and show diversity. I know about 123,000 French troops were evacuated, but what were the proportions of Dutch and Belgian?

_________________
Jon.
For I am allyer than thou.
Montys Men: http://www.living-history.org.uk/mm/index.htm
Korean War reenactment forum: http://www.theforgottenwar.proboards61.com/index.cgi


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 16:09 pm 
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Location: Netherlands
TALLERTHANBETTY wrote:
...... I know about 123,000 French troops were evacuated, but what were the proportions of Dutch and Belgian?.....


I can't tell, as the number of soldiers that escaped via Dunkirk are not known or registered. Remember that is was difficult for the Dutch soldiers to reach Dunkirk, as the Dutch army war was short of mechanised transport and most military units where run over "in a Blitz". Befor they realised what happend the Germans overrun half of the Netherlands.

Combined with an unexperienced military command (we hoped to stay nuetral as in the Great War) and oldfashion communication it was was "hectic" in those days. Allmost nobody knew what to do, commandstructures and communication collapsed, no information available and suddenly the Germans bombed Rotterdam and within hours the news came that the Netherlands (EXCEPT the province of Zeeland) cappitulated.
The province of Zeeland (south west Netherlands) kept fighting to delay the German advance into Belgium and keep the possibility open for combined French and British Forces to attrack. It allowed also to serve as an escape route for everybody taking the induvidual choise to do so. Several busses (including civilians busdrivers) where commandeerd to go south to find a seapassage to England. Some went as far as Marseille !!
The biggest problem: no money for petrol, no food and "the French".

If I have to make a guess I would say about 1000 men escaped via Dunkirk and/or other French ports, being a mix of infantry, Military Police, Military cyclists and whoever was able to find it's way to the UK.
All other free Dutch forces came from all over the world to join, or took an daring escape from occupied Europe.

_________________
"NAAFICOOK" is in real life known as Frederik Loggen from the Netherlands. He collects WW2 militaria in general, but specialises in WW2 FEMALE-uniforms (Commenwealth only).
My profile-photo was made in 1974, when I was reenacting Naval-Bomb-Disposal during the family's summerholiday on the Normandy beaches.
(Allthough I didn't know at that time there was a thing called reenactment, and YES the bomb is LIVE!)
You can SKYPE me, my ID = floggen


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 18:07 pm 
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Hi Jonhey

Cant find a Group on Yahoo called Dunkirk 2010, do you have a link please,

_________________
Gary Bainbridge
Summer of '44 LHG.

Please support the Arnhem Fellowship
www.arnhem1944fellowship.org

MECo
http://m-e-co.weebly.com/

508th P.I.R LHG UK
http://www.tentcity.org.uk


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