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 Post subject: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 23:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 21:19 pm
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Real Name: John
I'm doing WW2 french police officer next year did it last year below are some photos of my costume the kepi it not what I had last year this is my new one which is french police or at least the seller on ebay said it was the best and shoulder strap I have 2 one brown and one black which is the correct colour for police and what other accessories do I need I take it french police officers in WW2 did not use batons / truncheons and should I have shoes or boots

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 17:21 pm 
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It looks like the trousers are wide/regular bottoms not the riding breeches type with which you would wear a long/riding type boot as the guy in "allo allo " wears. I wear a black shoe with my regular trousers. As for the Kepi, I can't say but it's different from the one that I wear , maybe different kepi for different rank?


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 17:27 pm 
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I meant to add, I wear a black belt only as I portray a policeman i walking out uiform. You do see the strap, holster and batton worn by the Genndarmes i.e. the guy in "allo allo" again. With the trousers you have you would be national police as apposed to Gendarme. I'm not an expert on this subject and if anyne else can add some useful info and pics I'm always keen on learning too.


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 13:45 pm
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Location: France
Real Name: Pierre
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Hi,
you can have a look at this discussion here:
http://www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=86052

From what I can see, you can build a Gendarmerie impression.
- Trousers are good.
- You can wear low black shoes or black ankle boots with it.
- Belt and shoulder strap should be brown.
- Wear with black tie and white (or light blue) collared shirt.
- Jacket is good but you won't need the shoulder slip-on ranks, which are post-war, since you already have the rank chevrons on your lower sleeves. These are for the rank of Gendarme (matches the rank of Sergeant). Can't tell from the pics whether the ranks, buttons and insignia are gold or silver?
- Your képi is nice, I would date it from the 40s or 50 maybe. It is for the rank of Adjudant-chef (equivalent to WO1) though, so it doesn't match your sleeve ranks. Can't tell if it is silver or gold?

Hope this helps!

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Last edited by Sco Atao on Fri Mar 18, 2016 13:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 23:58 pm 
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Real Name: John
The rank patches on the arms are gold the buttons are brass gold the kepi is the only one I could get in my size I wear a 59/60cm size hat and most of the kepis for sale on ebay are police national 60's era not WW2 and as our railway station is in the countryside in the UK we turn it in to a SNCF countryside station so the Gendarmerie would of been in control

I also have another kepi which is all dark blue with a red top but no badges on it what cap should I have for that rank what's the correct kepi

I do have the belt / shoulder strap which is black and is french police brought it off ebay just a few weeks ago to replace the brown one I had
Image
Image
Image

Trousers came with the jacket I have been looking at breaches but then the boots are hard to get

I do have a truncheon but I take it they never used them but what other accessories would I need where could I get the gun holster from which attaches to the belt


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 Post subject: A
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:19 am 
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Location: France
Real Name: Pierre
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Your belt & shoulder strap is perfect.
The dark blue and red kepi is for a private or corporal in an Infantry unit, so it won't match your impression.

As for a correct kepi to wear with your jacket, here is what you will want:
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/ANCIEN-KEPI-DE-GENDARME-/151909418758?hash=item235e81c706:g:CY0AAOSwwE5WZt1l
This one will be too small though, but some others may come up on the French eBay.
It has to be with gold fittings to match the jacket, and have no lace "knot" on top. This is a kepi for a Gendarme Mobile.

Another solution would be to keep your kepi, which is very nice and fits you, and to change the rank stripes on your cuffs for gold and red Adjudant-Chef stripes like these:
Image
They are stitched on the bottom of the sleeves just above the cuffs, like here:
http://marechaussee.skyrock.com/photo.html?id_article=3044962365&id_article_media=26500809

There are 2 points to consider with this solution though:
- do you want to modify an original jacket? (nothing like destroying it though, this is only stitches)
- if you are too young, wearing a rank of Adjudant-Chef impression won't look realistic since they are experienced senior NCOs.

Thie pic above also shows a holster for the Ruby pistol being worn, you may want to get one but they aren't that easy to come by.

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 22:20 pm 
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Real Name: John
The officier in allo allo wears a cape of some sort but in the UK they was only worn at night should I get one


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 13:18 pm 
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I don't think it is necessary, it may be hard to find and you won't really need it for an event, mostly if it takes place in a summertime daylight scene. Your jacket by itself is great for walking out as well as for regular duty.

As a sidenote, if you can't manage to find another kepi or other rank stripes for your jacket, wearing them both as they are now can still be OK. It will not be historical nor follow the military regulations, but the only obvious difference in the kepi is the lace knot on the top (the other being the thin red thread running through the lace around the top). So only people who know will see it, and again, your kepi looks great (plus it's your headsize).

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 0:35 am 
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Real Name: John
Well at the events I would go to no one will know also if I was to get boots and the right trousers which I have seen for sale what style boots are worn


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:31 am 
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Real Name: Pierre
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Then the best solution is probably to keep your kepi and your jacket as is. Just remove the slip-on ranks from the shoulders, just keep the chevrons on the sleeves.
The trousers shown in your first pics are good - blue with black stripes along the sides.
As for the boots, you can use pretty much any period looking boots as long as they are black leather: low shoes or ankle boots. Not the British ammo boots though (as it has toe caps, pebbled leather and studs). Be it low shoes or ankle boots, they should ideally not have toe caps.

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:56 am 
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Here is an interesting website (in French) about the Ruby pistol that was used by the French Gendarmes:
http://militariacollec.free.fr/dossiers/ruby/Dossier_Ruby.htm
Might be useful if you ever want to get one and/or its holster.

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 19:01 pm 
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Pierre, just wondering if you know what I.D. cards and/or paperwork a gendarme/ French policeman might carry?


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:58 am 
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Well, very interesting but tricky question!

I guess that a Gendarme would carry a kind of military ID card, since Gendarmes are part of the Armed Forces.
I work in a WW2 museum and recently went to a small museum of Gendarmerie for the inventory checking. I took a good amount of photographs but unfortunately couldn't find any personal paperwork (just checked right now).
However I'll check our own collections, try and find an answer and keep you informed.

Additionally, a Gendarme would be expected to wear an ID bracelet (plaque d'identité modèle 1918). Here is one that belonged to a Gendarme (found on the Internet):
Image
Image
Obverse shows NAME - first name - Gendarmerie. Reverse shows place and date of birth.

You can get some repros stamped to your details here :
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Plaque-d-identite-modele-1918-39-45-a-votre-nom-/121897021883?hash=item1c61a0f1bb:m:mPMi4Fc-zf_iJAQPGHlO8FA
If you send him a drawing of what you need he can stamp it to the required pattern.

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 17:21 pm 
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Hi Pierre, that's excellent, thank you. If you think of anything else which is relevant please let me know. I don't suppose you know what type of notebooks they used? maybe they didn't have them?
Kind regards
Andy


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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:08 am 
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Location: France
Real Name: Pierre
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Hi Andy,

here is the notebook they had for the road controls:
http://marechaussee.skyrock.com/2786316162-Carnet-a-souche-de-Proces-Verbaux.html
I don't know if there are still some of them available though, you might be lucky on the French eBay from time to time?

It was carried in their satchel (portefeuille de correspondance), along with many other items:
http://marechaussee.skyrock.com/2823155952-Portefeuille-de-correspondance.html
Due to their heavy use, they are quite rare and hard to find now.

This post-war Belgian Gendarmerie satchel looks the part (auction ends tomorrow):
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Ancienne-Sacoche-Gendarmerie-Belge-Sacoche-cuir-Sacoche-Gendarme-/272134817299?hash=item3f5c7fc613:g:vjoAAOSwxN5WZ~yA

Here is the model of handcuffs that was used by the French Gendarmerie:
http://marechaussee.skyrock.com/2855482944-Objets-de-suretes.html

Also, when I checked the WW2 Gendarmerie museum mentionned above (located in Vannes, Brittany), I noticed this whistle, an ACME Thunderer:
Image
ACME Whistles still make them, you can get one from their website.

All the best,
Pierre

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 Post subject: Re: WW2 french police
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 16:30 pm 
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Many thanks Pierre, very interesting and I now have extended my shopping list! I recently bought a whistle,although it has no markings it has a white cord so it may be quite a modern one? with regards to the I.D. bracelets, I see some have wartime dates on, would this be the date of issue or date of joining the Gendarmerie? I thought it was date of birth but now I'm confused.
Regards
Andy


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