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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:16 am 
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I have been led to believe the Ranger Battalions in Anzio were issued with Winter Jackets(Tankers Jackets). Did they also wear the Bib and Brace trousers? photo in Devlins Paratrooper shows 509PIB wearing a mixture of the afore mentioned uniforms and Jumppsuits. So the winter uniform was issued,A lot of the 36th Texas had winter uniforms at the Rapido crossing so they were widely issued in Italy.One of the 4th Rangers,who after Cisterna was send a replacements to the FSSF retains his winter jacket,Possibly from Cannon Company as that to was sent to the Force.
Anybody got any further information on this??????

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 15:26 pm 
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Definitely....

Yer see the Ranger POWs as they're marched through Rome wi them... And in pictures taken previous to the disbandment...

After transferring to the Force, ye'd imagine they'd be re-equiped, atm I have no information at hand on this, and never really bothered to look, but I do remember me and Bilko discussing this, and he pointed out the after Anzio pictures in Ross's Supercommandos book a load of of the guys in the piccies wearing doughboy packs etc, which, as ye know, the Force never where issued with, so, to conclude, I'll take a look...

Just as an after thought, it's interesting ye don't see any of the Force in the cold if winter 1943 in the Italian mountains with any winter jackets and bibs/braces set up...

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 17:16 pm 
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I doubt if many of the!st and 3rd Ranger Battalions went to the Force.After Cisterna they almost ceased to exist only a handfull returned,the rest dead or POWs. I don't know what happened about the Hospitalised Rangers wether the were rotated home as a training cadre or just scattered among other units.I think the Force got Cannon Company and the survivors of the 4th battalion,they were down by almost 50% trying to break through to Cisterna,the had n't had as much combat time as 1st and 3rd,propably why they were sent to the Force as replacements.
Yes I do recall the POWs being marched through Rome and the Italians were spitting at them and pelting them with allsorts,bit of a change from six months later! There was a few wearing winter uniform(quite a few in fact and all were wearing winter jackets). So it is highly likely at the time of Cisterna that the Rangers would be wearing the Winter Uniform.
Anybody else got anything on this time frame?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 18:49 pm 
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land-waster wrote:
I doubt if many of the!st and 3rd Ranger Battalions went to the Force.After Cisterna they almost ceased to exist only a handfull returned,the rest dead or POWs. I don't know what happened about the Hospitalised Rangers wether the were rotated home as a training cadre or just scattered among other units.I think the Force got Cannon Company and the survivors of the 4th battalion,they were down by almost 50% trying to break through to Cisterna,the had n't had as much combat time as 1st and 3rd,propably why they were sent to the Force as replacements.
Yes I do recall the POWs being marched through Rome and the Italians were spitting at them and pelting them with allsorts,bit of a change from six months later! There was a few wearing winter uniform(quite a few in fact and all were wearing winter jackets). So it is highly likely at the time of Cisterna that the Rangers would be wearing the Winter Uniform.
Anybody else got anything on this time frame?


Got pissed wi one in Rome, and later at the reunion in Ottawa gordie, he told me his stopry, made for good listenning... In Ottawa he had drove up from Texas on a whim, arrived by himself, no hotel booked or anything, what a guy!!

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 21:34 pm 
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Hi Gordon/Paul,

Sorry fellas, only just spotted this in all the blur that is life at the minute. Yep, the Ranger Force was issued with the Winter Combat Uniform and it was widely worn by the men. Your comments on the Force after the battle at Cisterna was spot on, the 1st guys who were wounded or were being rested were distributed among units and I've seen them go onto to serve in everything from 7th Army Corp to training in the UK. The 3rd Guys were virtually wiped out and were either killed or captured, I think 7 escaped in the end ! Luckily the 4th guys had a slightly better fate and as you both know, many went on to become Forcemen.

I plan to go to Cisterna one day and go to the nearby US cemetary and pay my respects to the 1st and 3rd Guys who lay there and all for one mans glory, I hope he thought Rome was worth it.

Cheers Dave

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:26 am 
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Sam Magee isn't Mark Clark's greatest fan,because he wanted to watch the breakout ,the Force set out in daylight. Sam said they should have gone by night because of a General's vanity a lot off good men died or were crippled that morning.
Lucas always carries the can for Cisterna ,but he was only doing what his boss Clark was telling him.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 13:13 pm 
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Absolutely Gordon,

Some things will never change I guess. I must go over, I've got no excuse now as I've got 'access' to a fluent Italian translator too, hopefully it won't be too long.

Cheers Dave

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' Jeez, where's that damned Lt. taking us now, he's gonna get us all killed'


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:46 am 
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Did they all wear jump boots in Italy?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:48 pm 
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LeMaitre wrote:
Did they all wear jump boots in Italy?


Who cares, re write history to suit yerself... :roll: :D

_________________
ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Hi Sean,

as far as the Ranger Battalions go then they started off with a combination of SV boots in the main with Service boots also being worn. By the time the landings came around for Anzio roughouts were also being worn, cut down leggings were also very prevalent too. There are pictures of Rangers wearing jumpboots in Italy but I don't know how the 'issue' worked on this, not sure if they were aquired or this was a battalion/field order etc. Sorry can't be more specific, I've never found any solid evidence on how this was done, hope this helps mate.

Cheers Dave

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HQ Co 2nd Ranger Bn
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' Jeez, where's that damned Lt. taking us now, he's gonna get us all killed'


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:20 am 
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beachmaster wrote:
Hi Sean,

as far as the Ranger Battalions go then they started off with a combination of SV boots in the main with Service boots also being worn. By the time the landings came around for Anzio roughouts were also being worn, cut down leggings were also very prevalent too. There are pictures of Rangers wearing jumpboots in Italy but I don't know how the 'issue' worked on this, not sure if they were aquired or this was a battalion/field order etc. Sorry can't be more specific, I've never found any solid evidence on how this was done, hope this helps mate.

Cheers Dave



Absolutley Dave, my theory from accounts is that they stole them, traded them, done wotever they could to get that gucci peice of gear, as it was, and so it is today... Maudlin does a pretty good rhetoric on the fashions of the troops in Italy at the time, or various times and fashions (one month, the aviator look, then next the combat look by rear echelons to give one example)...

As for the Rangers who went over to the Force, it's assumed they where re-equipped, and it says so in the records, but still, they must have held onto their eqipment cause they liked it/where used to it, I've seen at least one photo of the Rangers around Venafro wearing Mackinaws :wink: 8)

_________________
ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:56 am 
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Even the Force could n't get replacement jump-boots and were issued the buckle-boots. This did not sit too well with them when the MP's around Naples were all wearing them.
When the Force were on leave in Naples they regularly accosted the MPs who were asked the question' When Did You Qualify?' Failure to produce the correct answer usually meant the boots were removed by whatever means. Forcemen coming back from leave in Naples always had jump-boots and a few pairs to hand out. When complaints were made about this ,all Fredrick replied'you know the regulations! what do you expect me to do about it?'. ' I have more important things to do.'
Was this the first step in the Force becoming a law unto themselves?By the end of the South of France campaign they disregarded officers from any unit other than the Force.Even the officers did more or less what they wanted to. Paul will verify this, about the officers visits to Nice that was off-limits to the Force. Perhaps that was why the were stood down,and the expieriment was never repeated. Strangely the Canadians settled back into thier own army very quickly.Many American jump qualified members went to airborne units,some of them prefered to stay with thier buddies and were transfered to the 474th infantry.
Now this raises some interesting points. They were trusted to guard Nazi bullion,and the transfered to Norway at the end of the war. Why did they send them there? British sent SAS. What was going on in Norway to warrant such units to be sent there???? The Germans would have surrendered to the Army Cadets or Boy Scouts,the Quislings were mostly rounded up by thier own countrymen. what was so important about Norway??? I suppose we will never know. I have heard rumours that the German Nuclear programme was more advanced than first thought,did the Research teams operate in Norway well away from the bombing raids. Just guessing got no evidence for my claims.It's just one of those things . Got any views?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:55 am 
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land-waster wrote:
Now this raises some interesting points. They were trusted to guard Nazi bullion,and the transfered to Norway at the end of the war. Why did they send them there? British sent SAS. What was going on in Norway to warrant such units to be sent there???? The Germans would have surrendered to the Army Cadets or Boy Scouts,the Quislings were mostly rounded up by thier own countrymen. what was so important about Norway??? I suppose we will never know. I have heard rumours that the German Nuclear programme was more advanced than first thought,did the Research teams operate in Norway well away from the bombing raids. Just guessing got no evidence for my claims.It's just one of those things . Got any views?


Some say Jupiter was just a ruse.... :wink: :roll:

_________________
ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 13:00 pm 
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Hi Paul,

It would appear that the Ranger Force were issued the boots but I don't have any 'firm' evidence to say how/when etc. I had heard about the Forcemen taking boots form other soldiers and I know the Rangers had a similar reputation but don't think they could've done that on that scale without invoking a 'revolt' amongst the other US forces.

I've seen those pictures of the guys wearing the Mackinaws, again not an 'issue' item but obviously obtained and the same happened to the 2nd and 5th guys in NW Europe in the winter of 44/45 but here we are again on the same old Q of who wore what :wink:

Cheers Dave

_________________
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HQ Co 2nd Ranger Bn
Ranger Re-enactments


' Jeez, where's that damned Lt. taking us now, he's gonna get us all killed'


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:47 am 
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beachmaster wrote:
Hi Paul,

It would appear that the Ranger Force were issued the boots but I don't have any 'firm' evidence to say how/when etc. I had heard about the Forcemen taking boots form other soldiers and I know the Rangers had a similar reputation but don't think they could've done that on that scale without invoking a 'revolt' amongst the other US forces.

I've seen those pictures of the guys wearing the Mackinaws, again not an 'issue' item but obviously obtained and the same happened to the 2nd and 5th guys in NW Europe in the winter of 44/45 but here we are again on the same old Q of who wore what :wink:

Cheers Dave


This is the problem wi us geeky types, do we wear what we want, or wear what they wore, and in finding out what they wore, we have to research, it's a fine line...

TBH, I recall more clearly reading of the US Airborne on the eve of Dragoon going on leave etc in Italy and removing the jumboots from the rear echelons who wore that piece of gucci kit... :wink: :D

_________________
ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 15:41 pm 
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Do we wear what they wore,or do we wear what we think they ought to wear? Regardless,I am getting increasingly wary of making broad sweeping statement,mis information abounds.I am always willing to update anything I find contrary to my previous research. I stick with my statement best information I have at this time.

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