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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:14 am 
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As requested by Minty, a thread to dispel the inaccuracies in Ranger impressions from the unfortunate/SPR-believing/SOF-catalogue-bible-reading ones amongst the Ranger re-enacting fraternity! :wink:

Cheers,
Glen.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 am 
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Oh where to start?????????????????????????????????????

Will think a bit, then do a list.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:55 am 
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Hope this doesn't turn into a slagging match. :lol:


I'll start,
I saw a guy once wearing two five cell Thompson pouches airborne style attached to his suspenders............how I chuckled!

GlenM: ".....because the Rangers didn't do this." Try and add in the reason why something is wrong, guys, as this will help with the newbies who need to learn this stuff. Cheers, Glen.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:57 am 
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People wearing 2nd Ranger scrolls for a Normandy impression when they weren't even issued until very very late 44' early 45' !!!!

Even worse, people wearing 48 star armbands !!! Ughhhhhh !! Why oh why, they never ever had them in the 2nd/5th Rangers. 1st for North Africa/Sicily but never for N/west Europe !!!!

M43's with 2nd Rangers insignia on, show me any photo of a 2nd Ranger wearing an M43 ? Now I know there may have been exceptions as kit would have been aquired but they never ever got them in the field, again why do it ?

More to come !

Dave

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm 
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Real Name: stephen r guenther jr
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beachmaster wrote:
People wearing 2nd Ranger scrolls for a Normandy impression when they weren't even issued until very very late 44' early 45' !!!!

Even worse, people wearing 48 star armbands !!! Ughhhhhh !! Why oh why, they never ever had them in the 2nd/5th Rangers. 1st for North Africa/Sicily but never for N/west Europe !!!!

M43's with 2nd Rangers insignia on, show me any photo of a 2nd Ranger wearing an M43 ? Now I know there may have been exceptions as kit would have been aquired but they never ever got them in the field, again why do it ?

More to come !

Dave


the scrolls werent issued at all...they were a private acquisition starting no earlier than september '44 - even then it would be very small numbers.....

you're right about the 43 jacket. I've seen quite a few pics of 5th rangers wearing them in '45 - when the replacements started getting them, but I have never seen a pic of a 2nd ranger wearing a 43 jacket.

One of the silliest things I saw recently was a yellow helmet diamond.... :shock:
here in the US, rangers are suddenly showing up with HBT caps.... :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 13:56 pm 
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Hi Steve,

yep, my bad I'm afraid, 'Issued' wasn't the right word to use, they were private purchase to be correct and we met the Ranger who got his Father to make them for the unit in 2004. He was a tailor and made them following a request from the men in the battalion and sent them out to him. They are seen from December 44' in use.

I'd love to see the pics of the 5th Guys wearing M43 kit. It was set aside as an issue item for the 2nd but they never got them. I did hear that some of the 5th guys got them and they were near to elements of the 2nd but I have never seen any pics.

Yep, seen the yellow lozenge's on ebay on M1 pot's and they are quite 'beautiful' !

The other one is 'Pin up's' on M41 Jkt's. Yep we've seen the colour pics of Jack Bramkamp and Elmer Olander but they weren't that common but you still see it being done ! Does everybody want to be an 'SPR' extra !

Cheers Dave

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 14:17 pm 
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I could only find one in my immediate collection.....

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v13/s ... enwald.jpg
He's is on the right with his hands behind his back facing away from the camera....he could have been from one of the other units at Buchenwald, but with the jump boots and Ranger Harry Herder saying he joined the rangers in March of '45 as a replacement with a '43 jacket lead me to believe that this individual was in the 5th rangers. Still not a common thing, but its there....

I recently looked at websites for reenactment groups and I saw some things that stand out:
1) a winter '45 scenario and 3/4 of the group with leggings....
By that time the 2nd had pretty much completely switched away form the leggings....

2) HBT caps on almost everyone in the unit.
There is no photo or vet evidence that I know of that proves anyone in the 2nd or 5th wore them at all...

3) A red helmet Diamond!!!!
I'm sure it wasnt the coloring the photo or light playing tricks as there were others in the pic that were the proper orange...


I've been thinking recently and I can remember few if any members of any of the battalions wearing the m36 suspenders or the mussette bags. What do you think?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 14:25 pm 
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Guenther wrote:
I could only find one in my immediate collection.....

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v13/s ... enwald.jpg
He's is on the right with his hands behind his back facing away from the camera....he could have been from one of the other units at Buchenwald, but with the jump boots and Ranger Harry Herder saying he joined the rangers in March of '45 as a replacement with a '43 jacket lead me to believe that this individual was in the 5th rangers. Still not a common thing, but its there....


Isn't the guy to that guy's left wearing an M43 jacket as well (the one with his hands on his hps looking to the left - he's got the jacket ruffled up by his hands - you can see the pocket flap of the chest pocket in the photo.

Also, the guy in the M43 jacket on the right - is it just me, or is he wearing M43 trousers with Airborne leg pockets? They don't look like HBT trousers (pockets look too big)....

Cheers,
Glen.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 14:43 pm 
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GlenM wrote:
Isn't the guy to that guy's left wearing an M43 jacket as well (the one with his hands on his hps looking to the left - he's got the jacket ruffled up by his hands - you can see the pocket flap of the chest pocket in the photo.


It could be....I just assumed it was an Ike....
Quote:
Also, the guy in the M43 jacket on the right - is it just me, or is he wearing M43 trousers with Airborne leg pockets? They don't look like HBT trousers (pockets look too big)....

Cheers,
Glen.


It could be. Ranger Herder said in his story "Catharsis" that when he volunteered for the rangers at a repple depple that there was a sgt. from one of the airborne divisions that volunteered and was accepted by the rangers. Something about having broken a leg so he couldnt jump anymore.....if he came out of a hospital, its possible he was issued a new uniform before going back into the field....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 15:07 pm 
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I saw two sets of two guys at Pickering last week who were walking about in Ranger gear. Not two helmet diamonds matched in colour or size and they were all wearing different helmet nets. Surely they realise that one guy would generally be designated to paint all the helmets so they would look very similar. I'm sure some people think that they just handed the guys some paint and a brush each to let them get on with it. :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 21:39 pm 
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Gosh!

I go away for a few hours, and low and behold - this sticky has already been posted up - cheers Glen!!!

The thread's are very good lads...very good indeed!

Regard's - Minty.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 18:39 pm 
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So its wrong to ware a m43 when portraying a member of 1st,3rd and 4th rngr in italy?,how about m43 DB's before overlord?,what about if i had a 75mm gun motor carrage on a m3 half track is that ranger wrongness???...

Also would it be ok for me to use a daisy mae or a m1941 HBT cap with my 6th bn impression??or may be a m2a1 flame thrower?.

Or is this thread just for the ETO??.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 21:03 pm 
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Bilko wrote:
So its wrong to ware a m43 when portraying a member of 1st,3rd and 4th rngr in italy?,how about m43 DB's before overlord?,what about if i had a 75mm gun motor carrage on a m3 half track is that ranger wrongness???...

Also would it be ok for me to use a daisy mae or a m1941 HBT cap with my 6th bn impression??or may be a m2a1 flame thrower?.

Or is this thread just for the ETO??.


:D :D :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:55 am 
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Hi Steve,

That is a very famous picture, you can see it really clearly in the Histoire Collections book 'U.S. Army photo Album 41-45' among others. H'mm hard to say if the guys in M43's are 5th Rangers, yep, granted the bloused Jump boots/High legs were worn by them as we know but weren't there Airborne troops at this camp at the same time as the 5th Guys ? Hard to tell without any SSI in view. However if they are 5th men then Rangers wearing Jump trews is not a first. The most famous shot of this was of S/Sgt. Kuhn at PDH after they had been relieved by elements of the 29th ID and 5th and 2nd Rangers from Omaha. You can quite clearly see Kuhn wearing M42 jump trews. The reason, as he said, you could carry more eqpt. in the pockets than HBT trousers. Although as I've said in the past, how long before we see a 'rash' of Rangers doing this !

Dave, no mate it shouldn't be restricetd to just NW Europe and if you've got an M3 with a 75 on it then I know a man who could stencil it up straight away for you. Which one of the four have you got, Spades, or is Diamonds ? Yep, Daisy Mae is fine by me for the 6th !

And yes, the 2nd did have M36 Suspenders and Mussettes in use, there are phot's of them using them in Brittany and also listed on the TOE from 43' onwards, they were an issue item, certainly for some of the 'tech' ranks within the unit.

Some good stuff coming through, keep em' coming.

Cheers Dave

p.s. Forgot to add, it was Frank Kennard's Father who made up the original scrolls for the 2nd.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:26 pm 
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beachmaster wrote:
Hi Steve,
And yes, the 2nd did have M36 Suspenders and Mussettes in use, there are phot's of them using them in Brittany and also listed on the TOE from 43' onwards, they were an issue item, certainly for some of the 'tech' ranks within the unit.


Ok, I was just checking. I know they are both in the TOE for the 5th too, but the mussettes are non-existant, if used at all...I'm gonna have to go back and double check for the suspenders...

Also, we always knew that there maybe a handful of members of the 5th who either stayed with cut down leggings or cut them down when they came into the 5th as replacements, but now we found two pics.....

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v13/s ... hRIB10.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v13/s ... thRIB3.jpg


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 21:00 pm 
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Hay Guenther,

Those first two guys look really mean...experianced, hard hitting professionals who just want to survive!!! :)

Thank's for posting it!

Regards - Minty.

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