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HBT's, and Poncho's
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Author:  Perdurabo [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 22:57 pm ]
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P.S.: I agree with GlenM that the FSSF guy in the second picture may be wearing a gas cape with face cover removed, while that in the first picture seems to be wearing a poncho.

Ye know, I wonder if that was what the FSSF got and Sam remembers it as a poncho?...That is, if it has a hood?...any pictures?

Author:  Perdurabo [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:09 am ]
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Having just purchased a gas cape dated Jan. 14th 1944, I have observed: There are no buttons/poppers which seem to be on the gas cape/poncho in the picture...The way it is packed produces "hundreds" of folds making it look like wee squares when laid out or worn (Yes I do know they could have been pressed out with wear, but this would have to be prolonged wear, and not as this picture is, a wounded soldier who is just waiting in line to be seen, the bulge under the "cape" indicates he still has his webbing/Mussette on)...There is a clear hood, actually an extension of the cape making a box shape....

From looking at this gas cape I have in my possesion, I don't think the gas cape/poncho in the picture is indeed a Gas cape, but is infact a poncho....

However, I may yet be proved wrong....

Author:  GlenM [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:19 am ]
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I did clock the lack of folds on whatever it is, but those dots that could be buttons/poppers aren't in the right place for a poncho anyway (apparently in the middle of the item in question.

Plus you can't see the (what would be press-studded-together) joins from the front and back of the poncho in this photo, which, given the amount of material you can see, you should be able to spot somewhere on it, surely?

Hope that makes sense...


Author:  Perdurabo [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:04 pm ]
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He has the thing draped over his shoulders, and the poppers are at the edge of item, where they are on the poncho, I will shortly (make an attempt to/at) reconstruct photo and post...With both items....If I where in this chaps state I would aswell, it's easier to pull back for observing other than having to go about taking the helmet off and pulling over the head etc....Wot ye think?


Author:  GlenM [ Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:29 pm ]
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Oh, okay, I can see where you're going with that. That would explain the vast amount of material you can see in the photo with no edges.

Althought continue on with the reconstruction photo please, as it'd be worth it to verify.


PS Have dug out those boxes and will take some photos soon!

Author:  Perdurabo [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:35 am ]
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The other photo from the set of two: After you mentioned the "buttons" in the wrong place (in the centre) I had another look and looking again and at this one, there seems to be two rows of buttons...I don't think this is two shelter halfs, and it doesn't seem to be a poncho (on reflection) and not a gas cape, if neither of them what is it?

Author:  land-waster [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:05 pm ]
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That bloody helmet is in the way!

Author:  Kilroy_ [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 15:11 pm ]
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Annex No. 1 to Admin Order No. 2 (posted by Perdurabo) is quite clear about the fact the FSSF was issued ponchos in November, 1943. I do not see any reason why we should imagine a clerk to have mistyped "poncho" for "parka" or any other such item, unless we find evidence to the contrary.

When they got the ponchos, I do not know; what type, I would say the syntehtic resin coated ones (at such a date). And, obviously, hoodless. USMC ponchos? Seems doubtful.

This is to say that, in view of that type of documentation, identifying the item in the photos becomes less crucial to the issue. In any case, I still think the guy is not wearing a poncho, although it's hard to tell from the pictures. He may even be wearing just some type of tarpaulin, not an article of clothing

Author:  Perdurabo [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 18:45 pm ]
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Hi Kilroy...
Good enough coments, however, these photos where taken around the the ledge we beleive was where Frederick's CO was, just below the final cliff face to La Difensa, still 3,000 feet up, a long way to howk a (heavy canvass) tarp...But, again, never say never....

I could be wrong about the actual location, doubt it as it was a collection centre for prisoners and an aid station, one thing I do know is it's up La Difensa...

Somethign we have thought about, when the FSSF traded the Johnsons for the RS explosive, maybe they had some ponchos thrown in (?)...Another is, the unit had the choice of the gear available to them and they could pick and chose (like they took the mopuintain pants...Left out the woolen ski pants,a nd mountain jacket..But also chose the new experimental M43, alonmg with the Bazooka)...Maybe they got ones issued, maybe the got the old WWI stock as the QM decided they would be best...Who knows eh? (that';s why I love this hobby)...

Author:  GlenM [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 19:25 pm ]
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What do people think of the material on this item? I reckon it looks "crinkly" to me - i.e. not cotton/tarpaulin. As well as looking fairly thin.

Not sure what that implies though.... ;)

Author:  gliderinf [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 20:18 pm ]
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I agree it does look crinkly - more like some sort of Gas related Item than a poncho. GAS stuff tends to be like that - Possibly because they are throwaway once theyve been used ????

German gas cape ? I have one somwhere but have never opened :?

Author:  racanichou [ Thu Feb 14, 2008 23:39 pm ]
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I was actually thinking that this cap or whatever could have been of german nature....

Author:  Perdurabo [ Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:02 am ]
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With two rows of "buttons" down the middle (on the back of the trooper in photo)...?..I like a good mystery... :wink: 8)

Author:  racanichou [ Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:05 am ]
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italian perhaps than???

Author:  Perdurabo [ Fri Feb 22, 2008 14:02 pm ]
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Was going through my battle site finds and this is something we found on La Difensa, at the time we where flumixed, now I know wot it is...The remains of a gas cape found in a fox hole, diferent colour, but same material...There ye go...

Author:  SaddleTramp [ Sat Jan 16, 2010 20:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HBT's, and Poncho's

To get back to the photos "on" La Defensa...Just seen some blown up ones of the same in Angelos museum, and the "folds" are actually the seams, the "buttons" is the impressions of buttons they make when ye fold/unfold it, how do I know, got one here, unfolded it, left it out in the (Italian) rain, and the impressions we see in the photos posted by "perdurabo" come up/are identical....

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