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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 22:38 pm 
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Real Name: Milko Geezah
Group: FSSF
From a ex reg army point of view,we would get any new bit of kit by hook or by crook :wink: same would have happend 60+ year back.

As we don't live in that time we need pictures to back up eveidence :shock: :)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 20:56 pm 
Page 183, "Snow Plough and the Jupiter Deception" I am posiitve it's a poncho...

Photos section between pages 127 and 129, "The Devil's Brigade", the gyu extreeme left of the crowd of German prisoners (and Finn Roll wearing a raincoat)....

Both taken on La Difensa, Dec. 3rd/4th 1943...Also the descriptions and historical documents mentioned in supercommandos...But that only relates to the FSSF, who probably got a load from the Marines when they swapped the RS explosives...Which weren't in the MTO.... Or the ETO (?)... :?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 22:05 pm 
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It'll be a lot easier if you scan the pics in for everyone who doesn't own the book....

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:29 am 
Here ye go...

Guy extreme left...
Image
Guy waiting to see medic...
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:47 am 
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Wondered when you'd get round to that... ;)

The first one does look like the typical non-hooded poncho, although the neck does look slightly different. What does the neck of the USMC one look like? Beyond my area of expertise.

The second one may well be an anti-gas cape - don't think this one is a poncho.

Cheers,
Glen.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 19:29 pm 
Yeah...Just finally got round to buying a scanner...Mmm....Anti Gas cape...will have a look into that, d'ye see the guy just behind him, inbetween the back of the German medic and the guy wi the "gas cape"?...

Thing is, it is in the orders issued and copied in the Supercommandos...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 19:33 pm 
Maybe when Frederick traded the RS for some Johnson's, he got a bunch of ponchos (?)....


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 19:40 pm 
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perhaps. that would make sens.

BTW, did you finaly get one?

I got mine for $20.00 :D


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 19:46 pm 
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Perhaps one of the USMC collectors on here will kindly inform us what a non-camo USMC poncho looks like...!

Cheers,
Glen.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 23:32 pm 
racanichou wrote:
perhaps. that would make sens.

BTW, did you finaly get one?

I got mine for $20.00 :D


Just got another one...Not as cheap as yours....btw...Is it non hooded?...I got one hooded for £8 or something like that....So I now got three...ONe hooded, two non...WHY????


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 23:51 pm 
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Great war ponchos / Leftovers is the most likely - these are repros of USMC and Army


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:38 pm 
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Perdurabo wrote:
racanichou wrote:
perhaps. that would make sens.

BTW, did you finaly get one?

I got mine for $20.00 :D


Just got another one...Not as cheap as yours....btw...Is it non hooded?...I got one hooded for £8 or something like that....So I now got three...ONe hooded, two non...WHY????


non hooded of course!!!

date 194? i think.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 13:00 pm 
Mmmm...Gliderinf...I wonder if any units did get them, who, when and where?...this is an interesting twist in the research....As I say wi the rations research, the more I get answers, the more questions pop up...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 13:17 pm 
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There was stacks of everything else left over after NOV 18 - the army hardly ordered anything new untill they got properly into ww2 as they had enough of everything for several Million men and only had a comparative handfull of men to use it.

Now ponchos were replaced with raincoats partly because of gas masks, and acsecability of other kit.

Now when they were trying out Ideas / kit etc for the FSSF and for other smaller Specialist units - surely they would look at whats in the inventory.

Mountains = No Gas Warfare + extreme weather
Ponchos = dont have to take all your kit of to put it on while half way up a mountain
Rucksack = plus it protects your rucksack and other kit - unlike the raincoat.
doughboy = it is possible to wear a raincoat over a certain amount of kit - but not A full ruck etc.

Now that's not proof - but if they did have them - then it is why they had them. And it is surely How they had them before the introduction of the Late war style.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 22:08 pm 
Do you know when they where replaced by the raincoat...Was it staged etc...Dates...?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:32 am 
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Hi, working from memory here, so mistakes possible, but that's what I remember from official QMC docs:

The standard US Army rain garment in 1941 was the raincoat. No ponchos were used. Production problems were encountered, and several models of raicoats were approved in 1942, differing in coating of the cotton fabric and with ordinary or raglan sleeves.

The USMC, of course, already had ponchos (not camouflaged till 1942) of the model shown in the color picture posted by gliderinf.

In mid 1942, the Desert Warfare Center asked for the development of a "desert poncho" (?!). The QMC obliged, and at the end of 1942 synthetic resin coated ponchos were first procured in limited quantities, since the production of raincoats was severely insufficient to meet the needs of the expanding Army. That of ponchos was deemed only as an "emergency" procurement.

These early ponchos, for which no official QMC specification was approved, were hoodless, and closed by a drawstring at the neck. They could not be used to set up a tent like later ponchos.

Soon afterward, studies began to produce a lightweight nylon poncho, and this was finally standardized at the end of 1943. Again, no hood and drawstring, but maybe (my memory fails here) with snap buttons to form tents. The lightweight ponchos were meant for tropical use only.

Because of textile shortages, a third model of poncho was also standardized about the same time, which was midway, in weight, between the synthetic resin coated and nylon ponchos.

So, three types of ponchos were in US Army inventory by early 1944, and the first type was procured starting at the end of 1942. Quantities on hand however were very limited because of severe production shortages, and ponchos did not replace raincoats, the two types of garments were used alongside.

All that said, it is quite possible the FSSF had ponchos earlier than other units (after all, they were using M1943 jackets in early december, 1943, before the QMC even began experimental distribution of the new garments in February 1944 at Anzio!).

But, in any case they would be hoodless ponchos. Hooded ponchos started being developed by the US Army only in the summer of 1945.

P.S.: I agree with GlenM that the FSSF guy in the second picture may be wearing a gas cape with face cover removed, while that in the first picture seems to be wearing a poncho.

Cheers!

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