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 Post subject: Remington 10 riot gun
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 17:42 pm 
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Hi, I've just checked out the IWM online photo collection with a search of "Home Guard 1940" and came across a photo of a Remington pump action shotgun with the description of

" This shotgun was one of a number of weapons provided for Home Guard use in 1940 by an American organization called the American Committee for the Defence of British Homes."

There was also photos of a Winchester 1894, and I think I've also seen (on a different site) a Peacemaker, from the same committee,

Does anyone have any info about these weapons ??, and were they ever issued ??

(I bag the cowboy guns)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 17:50 pm 
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I was told once that the propensity of Winchester Model 1892 rifles/carbines guns in this country was due to an influx from the USA during the war ... perhaps this is part of that import from that organisation ... are you (they) sure it is a Model 1894 in the picture ?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 19:14 pm 
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That's what it says.

"Winchester M1894 sporting takedown rifle, half octagonal barrel, half-length magazine. The rear sight, with one standing and two folding leaves, is probably a replacement. At some point the major ferrous parts have been quite neatly black lacquered."

I want to discover that hundreds of 1851 Navy Colts were issued


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 19:25 pm 
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LOL ... dont think any of those were sent ... tell you what though as well as Winchesters, I saw a pic. of a Rem Rolling Block which I knew about .. and a Springfield, which for all the world looks like a Trapdoor model ?? very interestign that ... !!

You will guess from those comments that I found the Winchester pic. and it is a M1894, there is a difference in the size and shape of the frames.

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'The Writing 69th'
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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 19:26 pm 
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Reading further I might have found the answer to your question,

" although well over seven million Model 94 rifles have been made, they were seldom seen here. 5,000 Winchester 94 rifles were purchased in 1914 for the Admiralty, and at least one Navally-marked example is known. 2,700 were subsequently offered in disposals lists"


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 19:30 pm 
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It's a fantastic find, just think of the possibilities, the LDV/Home Guard armed with Winchesters or 1861 Enfields, with Remington's for backup, just got to find out "What happened next" after they had arrived.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 19:57 pm 
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I doubt very much if it would have been an 1861 Enfield .. I stand corrected of course if you are quoting IWM as source .. its just I can't really see a percussion weapon being issued to anyone in WWII ????

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 22:00 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Group: Tay/5 & 1st American Sqdn., Home Guard
There are stories of LDVs/HGs unloading at least one crate filled with ACW percussion revolvers, privately donated by well meaning American citizens. I am under the impression that many of the arms that were collected in the arms for Britain campaign rarely got into the HG. I believe Lord Beverbrook, who was organising the campaign wanted them to go to the factory LDV/HG units. I have a photo, in a book, of "gangster arms" that had been confiscated by New Jersey police that were being collected to send to Britain. It was a right mix of civvy handguns and rifles.

As to muzzleloading Enfields, there is an account of one LDV using a "Crimean War" cavalry carbine, that came from a museum, being used to drill with as well as my mum remembering some LDVs on the IoW drilling with broom handles. Of course we don't know about what got sunk.

Of course one thing to think about, besides did any of this eclectic arms collection get issued, was there any ammo? It is one thing to drill with a completely obsolete weapon, it is another to be able to go on patrol looking for fifth columnists and parchutists with one. A carving knife on a broom handle is going to be a bit more leathal than an empty rifle. After all during the Vietnam war a Veitcong arms cache was discovered and it had several 1860s Enfield Artillery carbines that were still used for training.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 22:54 pm 
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Going by the lack of photographs of the HG with some of these weapons, you are probably right, none of them actually got into their hands, its one thing to see the pictures as per the IWM website, and have the information available that you have researched, but then again another of course as proof of issue.

Speaking of photographs, I notice on the IWM site that the majority of the pictures there (of the HG that is) were taken by a Press Agency photographer or a War Office official photographer, .. as such I think the vast majority of them were probably posed for publicity or propoganda purposes.

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United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 23:37 pm 
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Ahhh....I quite fancied a black fast draw rig holstering a Peacemaker, and carrying my trusty Sharps Carbine, oh well, without the issue paperwork, or photo's for proof it will be just a flight of fancy, better clean up my broom pole then,


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:06 am 
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The biggest thing they needed to overcome was to convince themselves, the public and most importantly the Germans that the Home Guard was a solid force capable of offering stiff resistance.

To this end, first of all proper modern military weapons were needed and next a uniform to make them look like soldiers.

Carrying a rag tag collection of Napoleonic fowling pieces doesn't do that.

Yes, in the initial LDV days anything would do and at that point it might have been better than nothing, but it soon changed.

If you want to see what happens when a ragtag militia meets real soldiers, flick to the other end of the war and look at the Volksturm...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:37 am 
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I wasn't inferring that in the posed pictures they were just given the weapons in them for the picture opportunity, that they were issued those is beyond doubt .... perhaps along with propaganda and publicity reasons, I should have also said morale boosting too .. ?

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War Correspondent
United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:29 am 
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Real Name: Alan David
AS far as Winchester carbines are concerned, the Admiralty ordered 5,000 Model 1894 saddle ring carbines in 30WCF from Winchester in 1915, but the mail order was for 20,000 Model 1892 SRC's in .44WCF. After the Great War many of these ended up with the Sea Cadets and were used in training up until at least 1944 when an effort was made to replace them with something more modern.

The arms donated to the UK through the American Committee for Defense of British Homes did end up with the HG, but as Cobblers says above these mainly ended up with Lord Beaverbrooks Factory Defense Units, being factory's engaged in work for the aircraft industry. Most weapons when donated were supplied with at least 20 rounds of ammunition. The publishers of Picture Post magazine who were also involves in this exercise described the 16,000 small arms supplied as a 'motley collection'. There part in this exercise has largely been overlooked. I suspect many of the odd ball weapons of ancient manufacture remained in storage for the war, but have yet to find any evidence for this superstition.

Regards

Alan David
Sydney


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