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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:18 am
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Real Name: Andy
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BAR gunners had pouches different to the standard HG BAR pouches? That's frikkin bizarre!

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Fraid so !!, I've just found my copy of "the bible", and the 39 leather pouch was issued (one per gun) to those with the BAR, and the Thompson, and later on, in early 42 when the familiar HG pouches became available, the issue would have been one 39 pouch and a HG pouch along with belt slider, and cross straps, .......hmmmm can't wear my denims then !!


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 13:07 pm 
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Group: Tay/5 & 1st American Sqdn., Home Guard
The BAR seemed to have appeared in numbers during the winter of 1940/41. On 5 November it was noted that Didcot had a total of almost 1,700, left and right, P39 pouches that were snatched up. By Jan. of '41 it was decided to make the pouches interchangable (the hooks were cut off). By March of '41 a hair over modified 2,200 pouches had been issued. With the TSMG starting appear in April '41 the use of the P39 pouch was extended to users of the TSMG. All of this is going on before the HG pattern pouch exsisted. Deliveries to Didcot, of HG pattern pouches, were completed by the end of May '42. By Sep't. of '42 nearly one and a half million sets of HG web pouches had been issued. When the STEN began to appear the P39 pouches were modified as mentioned in an earlier post.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 13:44 pm 
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P39 pouches for stens? I didn't think they did that, but had a 37 pattern pouch (one per man) - these are different to the universal pouches and different to the aux pouches.

I remember Tim having a HG BAR pouch with a pattern label - ie it was an example for a factory to show how to make them.

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 16:39 pm 
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You don't see the HG version of the 37 pattern in pictures much before 1944 so some 39 pouches may have been used, but rigid 39 pouches must have been so uncomfortable to assume the prone position you can't imagine them being popular in use.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 18:54 pm 
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Group: Tay/5 & 1st American Sqdn., Home Guard
I have seen some footage of HGs wearing a single P39 pouch. I have two that were modified for STEN magazines.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 22:36 pm 
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The 37pattern home guard sten pouch was first issued in early-mid 1943, though not common at that time, and you are correct the 39 pattern leather pouch converted to take sten mags is cumbersome and a pain, but was reasonably common.
I do a late Home Guard sergeant so I have the 37 pattern.
Attachment:
IMG_0731.JPG

Picture is described as Summer 1943, Cardiff Home guard.


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 13:24 pm
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Location: Leicester, UK
Real Name: Austin J. Ruddy
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Yet more proof for those revisionists who - for some unknown reason known to themselves - wish to rewrite history and have come up with the baseless idea that 'P17' is a post-war/modern name for the rifle that wasn't used during the war by the HG: here's a manual from as early as September 1940:


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:17 pm 
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No one is trying to 'rewrite history' as you put it, nor speaking for myself am I a 'revisionist' ..

Research is about seeing ALL of the facts available and not just what we want to see perhaps .. this could be an example of 'proof' .. maybe, except that if you look carefully the book is written by volunteer O. Underhill, (not a person it seems of official stature ??) .. and published by 'permission' of the Controller of HM Stationary Office, not by the Stationary Office or the Govt of the day themselves, and it is quite possible that this gentleman, himself calling it the P17, has simply used that description in his book, in fact too, looking at the date, 1940, its not too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that perhaps this is where the name P17 originated .. ???

This isn't about being right or wrong, frankly I could care less, :) but everything you have submitted thus far only confirms the fact that the gun existed is beyond doubt, that it was referred to as the P17 is beyond doubt too, what is doubtful and has not been proved fully is that the title P17 was official or correct, or should that be officially correct .. ?? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Location: Leicester, UK
Real Name: Austin J. Ruddy
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Correspondent wrote:
No one is trying to 'rewrite history' as you put it, nor speaking for myself am I a 'revisionist' ..

Research is about seeing ALL of the facts available and not just what we want to see perhaps .. this could be an example of 'proof' .. maybe, except that if you look carefully the book is written by volunteer O. Underhill, (not a person it seems of official stature ??) .. and published by 'permission' of the Controller of HM Stationary Office, not by the Stationary Office or the Govt of the day themselves, and it is quite possible that this gentleman, himself calling it the P17, has simply used that description in his book, in fact too, looking at the date, 1940, its not too much of a stretch of the imagination to think that perhaps this is where the name P17 originated .. ???

This isn't about being right or wrong, frankly I could care less, :) but everything you have submitted thus far only confirms the fact that the gun existed is beyond doubt, that it was referred to as the P17 is beyond doubt too, what is doubtful and has not been proved fully is that the title P17 was official or correct, or should that be officially correct .. ?? :wink:


Allen - for some reason, you're determined to/want to/wish to make this an argument.

My point from the beginning - which I made explicitly clear - was not that 'P17' was the official designation for the rifle, but that it was called that by HGs during the war. That is undeniable.

To reiterate, my criticism is that some people - without any basis whatsoever - have, for some reason, decided to tout that it was not known as the P17 during the war, but only by recent collectors etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:41 pm 
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aaahhh ... perhaps I have misread your meaning ... apologies, yes I agree the HG did call it that, and nowhere I think, (I hope), have I questioned that ??

My initial comment re; 'not official' was only by way of information and input to the discussion .. pax .? :wink:

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United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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 Post subject: Re: Equipment 1941
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:45 am 
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Group: Tay/5 & 1st American Sqdn., Home Guard
Speaking of P39 pouches:

Image

And another:

Image

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"One evening as an LDV, some German soldiers I did see, they ran like hell, but they couldn't catch me..."


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