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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 13:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
There is a group of guys in Virginia that is in the initial stages of putting together a 1940 Dutch infantry unit. As I indicated in an earlier post on this list, Schipperfabrik (http://www.schipperfabrik.com) is already producing some reproduction Dutch kit (belt, ammo pouches, breadbag, gas mask bag), and is planning to begin producing reproduction Dutch uniforms in the next few months. As usual, though, finding reproduced cloth and leather items is the easy part. Now we're trying to find sources for original metal items: helmets, bayonets, mess kits, canteens, gas masks, etc. Unfortunately, this stuff is impossible to find through our usual militaria sources in the U.S., and Ebay rarely if ever carries any of this stuff either.

So, cutting to the chase, are there any Dutch reenactors out there who either have extra kit that they want to sell, or who know of good local sources to find these items?

We are also interested in developing some good working relationships with Dutch reenacting groups so that we can exchange ideas and resources.

Peter

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:59 pm
Posts: 857
Location: the Netherlands
Group: VMD
HI,

The Dutch 1926 new model helmets do come up here on occasion, but usually after post war usage, eg the brass Dutch lion plate has been removed. Liners and straps are usually replaced at some stage. Prices starts aorund 30 Euro onwards I guess.

Sizes: I have not found any large (size 59 or over) helmets yet, so you best bet would be remanufacture something suitable for the bigger heads?

I can keep a look out for some, but postage would be quite a lot for these:
app. weight of one helmet is 1200 grs.
parcel to USA (4-6 days in transit):
0-2 kg 22.95: 1 helmet
2-5 kg 32.45: 3 helmets
5-10 kg 54.45: 7 helmets
10-20 kg 99.95: 14 or 15 helmets, but won't be able to find that many.

Rob

PS incidentlky one is for sale in 'all original trim' according to advertiser, on www.marktplaat.nl
advertsiment no. :174523807 but starting price is 100 Euro!

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For repro pamphlets etc: www.robvanmeel.nl


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 19:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
Cool! Thanks for the information Rob. We're all a little intimidated by the difficulties in putting this impression together, but we enjoy a challenge. We figure this will take us several years to get anywhere close to complete.

BTW, do you belong to a Dutch unit? If so, which one?

Peter

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:59 pm
Posts: 857
Location: the Netherlands
Group: VMD
In our club we do:
110 Special Wireless Section, Royal Corps of Signals, XXX Corps 1944 with strong DR and REME support groups
Queen's Own Rifles, 8th Canadian Infantry Brigade, 3rd Canadian Infantry Division
1bn The Black Watch, 51 Highland Division, both in 1940 and 1944/45 trim
Royal Navy: HMS Royal Arthur (Great War)
and recently we added Prinses Irene brigade, a Dutch battalion with support elements 1944-45.

On the 1940 Dutch uniforms etc. there may be some repro coming onto the Dutch market. I'll keep you informed.
In the meantime, I have some pre wra Dutch manuals etc and paperwork, so iby the time you have set up the group, I can supply some repros of these.
I'll write up a list one of these days.

Rob

direct email rvanmeel at wanadoo.nl

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For repro pamphlets etc: www.robvanmeel.nl


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:59 pm
Posts: 857
Location: the Netherlands
Group: VMD
As there may be a Dutch film made next year around the Grebbeberg story, A Belgium based dealer, Tim van Deutekom, will be starting reproducing Dutch 1940 items soon. He can be contacted on info@re-enactmentshop.com
Website is www.re-enactmentshop.com, but nothing much Dutch showing at the moment.

In the emantime: pre-war helmets with the Dutch lion in brass sort of start at € 75 and upwards. Without the badge, and with probably some Dutch GPO or fier brigade liner, prices seem to start from 25-30.

I will have Dutch Oorlogszakboekje available soon. Last bit to do is the cardboard cover in a matching brown colour as per my original.

Any progress on the US side of going Dutch?

Rob

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For repro pamphlets etc: www.robvanmeel.nl


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 14:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
Hey Rob,

Thanks for the update! Things are going VERY slowly here. The guys I have been talking to are taking a "wait and see" attitude about collecting kit.

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a beautiful helmet with crest and immaculate original liner. It cost me $200, which isn't too far out of line with the numbers you were talking about, particularly when you add a few thousand miles distance from the original source. I actually saw one for sale at a militaria fair in about the same condition, and the seller was asking for $950. :shock:

I'll check out Tim's website. I think that, if we can get over the perceived impossibility of sourcing much of this gear, we can generate some interest in this impression.

Peter

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:59 pm
Posts: 857
Location: the Netherlands
Group: VMD
Quote:
As there may be a Dutch film made next year around the Grebbeberg story, A Belgium based dealer, Tim van Deutekom, will be starting reproducing Dutch 1940 items soon. He can be contacted on info@re-enactmentshop.com
Website is www.re-enactmentshop.com, but nothing much Dutch showing at the moment.


Now showing: http://www.re-enactmentshop.com/p_dutch_army.htm

text is in Dutch, regrettably

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For repro pamphlets etc: www.robvanmeel.nl


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 14:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:30 am
Posts: 543
Location: Netherlands
A original helmet with lion and intact liner costs about 125 euro's.
Cheaper is possible with luck.

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Manufacturer of repro US helmets and restored front seams.


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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 23:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 3442
Location: Trying to work out why the GPO has the guns pointing the wrong way
Group: Garrison
had a look at the site and like the look of some of the items. What is his service like

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"I'm with your lot B Company......B here when they go.....B here when they get back!"

Pte Pat Cleary ANZACS

Heard on VHF gunner net in Borneo in 1960's
US Accent: Unknown call sign this is USAF over North Veitnam clear this frequencey we're fighting a war here
UK Accent: USAF funnily enough so are we.....but we're winning ours!


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:00 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
Quite good. I have made several orders from him so far, and e-mail responses are quick, and shipment is even quicker.

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 18:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 22:11 pm
Posts: 86
Location: Northern VA, USA
Real Name: Stephen K.
Does anyone have information on 1939-1940 Dutch "paybooks". Sadly I can't read Dutch nor do I even know what info would be put in the books but very keen to learn. Being in the States does limit some of the available resources. Any help that one might be able to throw my way will be greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Stephen


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 17:59 pm
Posts: 857
Location: the Netherlands
Group: VMD
As I said in 2008, I have the Dutch paybook (oorlogszakboek) ready, but for the cover.
Text is not the problem, biut I will have to colour the cardboard cover in order to get close to the original. And that keeps on being postpobed for more urgent matters.
But once I get back from Beltring, I will try to get that finished.

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For repro pamphlets etc: www.robvanmeel.nl


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 13:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
Since we're getting some traffic on this topic, a quick update on our Dutch unit.

We're now up to 5 guys, with another 1-2 on the fence. Most items that we'll need are now sourced either between McFarthingbowl's (mentioned above) and Schipperfabrik. We have been custom building other items including:

ID tags (just waiting for the prototype)
Entrenching tool carriers (made using original drawings and measurements, just waiting for the prototype)
Hobnails (we have measurements and specifications, we just need a manufacturer who can stamp them)
Tent poles (our manufacturer fell through because we didn't offer to buy enough to make them financially feasible (100+ poles))

Original items we're always looking for:
Helmets (as mentioned above; we have 3, we still need 3-4)
Bayonets (these are relatively easy to find in the U.S.)
M95 Long Rifles (carbines are easy, long rifles are tough, long rifles not cut up by the Germans are even tougher)
Rifle cleaning kits and bore brushes
Gas masks and/or gas mask filters

Our ultimate aim is to have the entire unit completely kitted out by January 2012. Our ultimate dream is to be able to come to the Netherlands in 2015 to participate in 75th anniversary events - perhaps including a commemorative march covering the route that the regiment we plan to portray moved over during the campaign.

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:25 pm
Posts: 3
Real Name: Erik de Bruin
Group: Nederland Paraat 1939-1940/VHM
PRgeyer wrote:
5 I.R. Nederlandse

This unit I don't know.
In the reenactment I act a sergeant of the dutch infantry 1939-1940. For years now. Thereby I'm a non-pro historian in Military History.
I guess PRGeyer means 5 RI (no dots, not I.R., that's german). It's one of the older infantry regiments, dating back to 1814 and during the army mobilisation 1939-1940 stationed in Amersfoort. Defense sector was in the vicinity of Amersfoort as well, part of the positions are still to be seen in the terrain.

I'd be glad to provide PRGeyer with information about the dutch infantry forces.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 19:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 20:44 pm
Posts: 221
Location: Vienna, VA
Group: Polish '39, German/British/Dutch '40, Romanian '42
Hello Erik,

You are correct, we are doing 5 RI (I wrote the initial note before we had actually done any real research - I had always done German before).

A person whom I contacted through the War Over Holland was kind enough to share with me the Regimental Diary from 10 May 1940 through the end of the campaign. We have a pretty good understanding of their positions at the beginning of the war, and of what they did and where they went during the battle. Unfortunately, beyond their combat history, I do not know much else about 5 RI. If you know more about this regiment's history, I would be very interested to learn more.

Additionally, while I have some original Dutch books that describe things like infantry drill, they do not have much in the way of pictures that we can mimic. While I can muddle through in German, and while this helps me somewhat with reading Dutch, my skill is not good enough that I can accurately translate blocks of text. If you have any access to descriptions (or better, photographs or diagrams) of Dutch rifle drill in English, I would be very grateful.

Thank you for your offer to help. Please PM me if you want to correspond more directly.

Sincerely,
Peter Geyer

_________________
5 RI Nederlandse
16 Dywizja Piechoty
IR104
2nd Battalion, Royal Sussex Regiment
9th ID, 34th Regiment Constanta


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:25 pm
Posts: 3
Real Name: Erik de Bruin
Group: Nederland Paraat 1939-1940/VHM
I think your main efforts must be at your gear and how to wear what in what occasion. There's a difference between rifle men and carbine men, and carbine men got some differences as well (cyclist of the infantry, cyclist of the cavalry, gunners, anti tank gunner (Pantser Afweer Geschut) etc.)
Paybooks etc. are not of importance, those are the little details to look after in the future.
We made an instruction in our group concerning the list of uniforms and gear a soldier should have. Also the exercition is under construction (the original instruction books are pretty hard to understand, we read the original material and check it with the veterans). This instruction book will come with photo's of the correct executions.
Send me your email address and I will send you the instruction books in pdf. as soon as I got them translated. Commands will be in dutch ofcourse. Just allow me two months.
Unterneath a photo of me, being sergeant of infantry cyclist during the ceremonial guard at the monument for the fallen cyclist may 1940.
Image


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