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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:14 am 
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I suggest you all read this and understand the potential implications:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-6110_en.htm

Some sections from the proposed directive: http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/ ... ons/native

"Consequently, for the most dangerous firearms (category A) stricter rules have been introduced – even if they are deactivated. This means that deactivated firearms from Category A will not be allowed to be owned nor traded (except for museums)"

NOTE: Category A is defined as "prohibited weapons - military weapons".

"Member States shall take all appropriate steps to prohibit the acquisition and the possession of the firearms and ammunition classified in category A and to destroy those firearms and ammunition held in violation of this provison and seized."

With the only slight caveat (which will mean museums probably):
"Member States may authorise bodies concerned with the cultural and historical aspects of weapons and recognised as such by the Member State in whose territory they are established to keep in their possession firearms classified in category A acquired before [the date of entry into force of this Directive] provided they have been deactivated in accordance with the provisions that implement Article 10(b)."

Category A (prohibited) currently contains:

1. Explosive military missiles and launchers.
2. Automatic firearms.
3. Firearms disguised as other objects.
4. Ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles, and the projectiles for such ammunition.
5. Pistol and revolver ammunition with expanding projectiles and the projectiles for such ammunition, except in the case of weapons for hunting or for target shooting, for persons entitled to use.

The wording now wants to add:
(13) in Annex I to Directive 91/477/EC part II is amended as follows:
(a) point A is amended as follows:
(i) in Category A, the following points are added:
‘6. Automatic firearms which have been converted into semi-automatic firearms;
7. Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms
8. Firearms under points 1 to 7 after having been deactivated’;

The red highlight is from me.

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"


Last edited by GlenM on Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:32 am 
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There is a Change.org petition already underway:

https://www.change.org/p/council-of-the ... ion-letter

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:37 am 
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My initial thought is that if the above was adopted lock, stock and barrel into UK law, the compensation bill would run into many millions, much of it would be unenforceable and a thriving black market would be created. i.e. the same reasons proposals for strong restrictions on deacts in the UK have fizzled out in the past.

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That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:24 pm 
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In the "I'm signing because..." box, please feel free to write something along these lines to also highlight the implications to the ownership of deacts that this debacle of modern law will also produce:

"I'm signing because I would like to show my objection not only to the proposed restriction [Category A Point 7] of legally owned semi-automatic firearms as used in sport and recreation, but also to the proposed restriction [Category A Point 8] to all deactivated weapons of those weapons listed in the current Category A Points 1 to 5 and proposed Category A Points 6 to 7."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Hmmm actually that Glen is worse than I initially thought - mainly because it only includes live semi automatic weapons that look like automatic weapons.

When I first read it, I saw it say "semi automatic weapons", which would have included a lot of hunting weapons... but it doesn't so basically the main thing they are banning are deacs of automatic weapons and missile launchers.

Which basically means its a handful of collectors and reenactors who are the target and we probably won't carry enough weight to win this.

I read the piece about harmonizing deac standards and thought "great, it finally opens up the EU market at least"... except that it doesn't because individual states can choose to have a tighter specification and they can choose to accept or reject another states deac standards. Probably largely irrelevant if we aren't talking Section 5 items anyway.

Even if they let us win the historical exemption BTW, it has a grandfather clause. So you won't ever be able to sell your deacs and new people to the hobby will never be able to acquire them.

As Mark says, potentially there is a compensation bill to be paid, but I suspect that 129 dead Parisians will trump this.... even if the items used to do that were none of these things to be banned, but already illegal weapons.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 14:13 pm 
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Looks like we'll have to start a deactivated weapons black market. For example, you brought your Bren gun to show me, you accidently left it at my house along with all the relevant documents...and low and behold you found a wad of notes in your jacket when you got home that made your forget about it :D


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 14:46 pm 
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I have nothing but admiration for you gents, I cannot imagine the hassle you have to go through.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 14:46 pm 
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BTW they also have a load more measures coming about other things... including eliminating cash payments!

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 15:36 pm 
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Luke, the only way you would still have said Bren anyway would be that you were a museum.

All deact automatic weapons and deact semi-autos that look like automatic ones (even M1 Carbines look like M2 Carbines) would be covered under this as-is.

Unless you were a museum.

And I think I saw something in there about a register of any remaining deacts too?

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 15:51 pm 
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Because - as is well known - your average Jihadi would like nothing more than to get his paws on a deactivated WWI Vickers MG... :roll:

The proposed EU wide deact specs can be found here. They are nastier than the current UK specs. E.g. magazines to be permanently welded on:

http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/ ... ons/native

But clearly there are an awful lot of real world details to be sorted out. Clearly not much thought has gone into it so far.

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 16:35 pm 
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Good luck welding a plastic mag to a modern assault rifle!

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 16:36 pm 
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Not of course that its relevant because no assault rifles will be deactivated any more anyway!

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 17:58 pm 
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Definitely in there is a register of any remaining deacts, blank-firers AND replicas.

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 20:24 pm 
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From the Deactivated Weapons Association:

http://media.wix.com/ugd/957eb3_404e692 ... 275798.pdf

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Glen Mallen
2nd Armored in Europe : http://www.2ndarmoredineurope.co.uk
D-505-PIR/2nd Armd : http://www.d505pir.com
Look Out Below! : http://www.look-out-below.co.uk/

"The only thing stopping you, is you"


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:42 am 
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Glad I sold all my weapons when I did, there is of course the faint glimmer of hope in the EU in/out referendum when it eventually arrives assuming it's not too late with regards to this, what I can't see happening however is any compo being given out to anyone-the law will be made and I presume an amnesty will be had and after that look out if you get caught with such a weapon.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:42 am 
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Actually, its ironic that the best hope for this not happening is the European Convention on Human Rights...

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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