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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:34 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
Isn't it actually something of a mute point in as much as the new spec says that there are to be no moving or replaceable parts ... ??

In terms of moving parts, the UK/EU 2016 spec isn't that different to the UK 2010 spec other than MG's have to have welded bolts. Like SMG's I believe they can still have moving cocking handles.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Its just that I remember reading on one of the many links to EU docs that the wording was such that ..

" ... all essential parts of the firearm would have been rendered permanently inoperable and incapable of removal, replacement or a modification that would permit it to be reactivated in any way ... "

My comment being based on that directive ..??

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 18:31 pm 
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Correspondent wrote:
Its just that I remember reading on one of the many links to EU docs that the wording was such that ..

" ... all essential parts of the firearm would have been rendered permanently inoperable and incapable of removal, replacement or a modification that would permit it to be reactivated in any way ... "

My comment being based on that directive ..??

The definitive UK version is here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... u-20152403

I've read elsewhere that it is the UK interpretation of the EU spec rather than a precise duplicate.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 19:09 pm 
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HI Mark ... aaahh that word 'interpretation' ... covers a multitude of sins I think and gives the powers that be quite a bit of leeway too ...; anyway ... it is exactly that publication I was referring to .....

COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING REGULATION (EU) 2015/2403

of 15 December 2015

establishing common guidelines on deactivation standards and techniques for ensuring that deactivated firearms are rendered irreversibly inoperable

(Text with EEA relevance)

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION,
Having regard to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,
Having regard to Council Directive 91/477/EEC of 18 June 1991 on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons (1), and in particular the second paragraph of Part III of Annex I thereof,
Whereas:
(1)
In accordance with Article 4 of Directive 91/477/EEC, Member States are to ensure either that any firearm or part of a firearm placed on the market has been marked and registered in compliance with that Directive, or that it has been deactivated.
(2)
In accordance with Annex I, Part III, first paragraph, point (a), of Directive 91/477/EEC, objects which correspond to the definition of a ‘firearm’ are not to be included in that definition if they have been rendered permanently unfit for use by deactivation, ensuring that all essential parts of the firearm have been rendered permanently inoperable and incapable of removal, replacement or a modification that would permit the firearm to be reactivated in any way.
...

In all honesty, looking at the two of them, there doesn't seem to be that much difference .,.??

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 19:15 pm 
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Just to clarify my last sentence .. the List of Types of Firearms, the Specific Operations per Component and the Specific Operations per essential component of each type of firearm appear to be the same for EU and UK .. ??

What we seem to be retaining is our form of single de-act mark as against using the EU 4 section de-act mark .. ??

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United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 19:21 pm 
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Then there's what the Proof Houses and the Home Office agree to being the physical interpretation of the rules, what the Proof Houses will accept from dealers as being within the spirit of the rules, etc. An example is the new UK requirement to prevent live magazines being inserted, which isn't in the original EU spec which required magazines to be welded in place.

It'll be interesting to see what is actually for sale at W&P next week.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 19:23 pm 
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Aren't we at the moment transferring all EU law to UK law that concerns us in a bit of a cut and paste job, then they're going to be fiddled about with later if necessary?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 19:48 pm 
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The one thing that perhaps can't be (mis)interpreted in any other way is the fact that we now cannot sell or otherwise move them on unless done to new spec .... I spoke to a couple of friends that went to Pudsey Arms fair last Sunday ... apparently there wasn't much there by way of de-acts ..!!

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'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 20:50 pm 
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Correspondent wrote:
The one thing that perhaps can't be (mis)interpreted in any other way is the fact that we now cannot sell or otherwise move them on unless done to new spec .... I spoke to a couple of friends that went to Pudsey Arms fair last Sunday ... apparently there wasn't much there by way of de-acts ..!!

Yes, it's a bit of a sellers market at present. I'm not expecting to see many deacts for sale at W&P outside of the big dealers.

As to whether there'll be much of a discrete additional 'fringe trade' shall we say..?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 21:14 pm 
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and maybe a police presence to confiscate deacts they dont like the look of ?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:00 am 
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W&P always has significant HMRC and now NCA deployments.

The show will be thoroughly swept, stuff seized and some people arrested.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:46 am 
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dcdl12976 wrote:
and maybe a police presence to confiscate deacts they dont like the look of ?


If they are legitimate de-acts regardless of when the de-activation was done, with the appropriate de-act marks and certificate, frankly there is nothing they can do about them.

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:00 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
dcdl12976 wrote:
and maybe a police presence to confiscate deacts they dont like the look of ?


If they are legitimate de-acts regardless of when the de-activation was done, with the appropriate de-act marks and certificate, frankly there is nothing they can do about them.


Indeed. The new restrictions apply to transfer, not possession. They would basically have to catch someone red handed to make a charge of illegal transfer stick.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:09 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
dcdl12976 wrote:
and maybe a police presence to confiscate deacts they dont like the look of ?


If they are legitimate de-acts regardless of when the de-activation was done, with the appropriate de-act marks and certificate, frankly there is nothing they can do about them.


Unless they appear offered for sale...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:27 am 
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... of course Andy ... that goes without saying I think ?

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:21 am 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:
Unless they appear offered for sale...

But how obvious would that have to be to make it stand up in court? Say a dealer had one hanging up at the back of the stall with no price tag on it and responded to enquiries with "it's not for sale"..?

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