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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:58 am 
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I would imagine that various people in the Home Office will now be screaming blue murder over the massive costs of implementing the proposals and the near impossibility of properly enforcing them. They clearly haven’t been thought up with consideration given to the realities of the UK deact market.

An outright ban is actually the second worst thing that could happen as (in theory) they will have to compensate the owners. The worst thing would be a repeat of the legal chicanery used to dodge paying compensation when they banned Brocock air cartridge guns.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:24 am 
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You are all panicing over something aimed at eastern european deacts.

read the bloody documents.
not a summary by someone that hasnt

sorry Glenn. Took me 3 readings to find several get out clauses.
Fact it. 132+ dead parisians say this is going through.

no point in whining. Just in ensuring we get to use the loopholes. Afterall who needs a deact AK when you can get an Airsoft.

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Last edited by lordduvet on Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:26 am 
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Oh you missed the bit about it not being retrospective....

if you own one now -your sorted

read about the illegal firearm trade through Belgium before deciding these regulations are crap though.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:56 am 
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Could you quote/cite the sources for it not being retroactive, exemptions, etc?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Yes, I see nothing in there about it not being retrospective.

And I did it read all the way through, as well as all the releases, which is why I probably missed wording after being mind-numbed.

Please do show where this is not retrospective.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:12 pm 
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And yes, the main problem being is that the Charlie Hebdo AK-47's were (VERY) bad deacts from Slovakia which were then re-activated in Belgium. 100% on that one, came via Czech authorities (who have our deact standard PLUS magazines being welded in place).

The current Paris ones seem to be bog-standard non-deactivated AK-47's.

But anyway, back to these exemptions/non-retrospectiveness - do tell, please Lord Duvet.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:19 pm 
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In the draft directive.

glenns quoted it already. Paragraph 4
Bodies concerned with the cultural and historical aspects of weaponry ..... holding in their possesion firearms classified in Category A acquired before the date of entry into force of this directive



dont fight the law - work out how to be included in that loophole

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:30 pm 
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Ah yes, but what is a "body"?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:40 pm 
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I could be.
you could be.

lets be one together?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:48 pm 
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Okay, so the UK Government needs to define what a "Body" is that can retain already-purchased Class A items.

How and when will that happen? Any insights?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:59 pm 
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The EU won't say, because this is a directive to the member states.

First they create a directive, then they get together and agree a timetable, then it is for individual states to implement their own laws to execute it and for the EU to check compliance with their directive.

This is years away from happening.... even if they rush it.

The UK won't be able to answer questions about how it will be done yet, because first of all they will wait and see exactly how the directive is when its passed - at the moment its draft. It could be rejected or heavily modified and one or more member states could say that they agree but only if its implemented in 2035.

I think at the moment, you won't find anyone at a serious government/political level who will be prepared to invest time this early.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:02 pm 
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BTW, I don't mean that we should be complacent, I'm just pointing out that this is no certainty yet!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:05 pm 
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Theres no loophole for the film industry yet either

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:31 pm 
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I am kinda sorta hoping - quite possibly very naively - that the UK governments' initial response will be along the lines of 'the proposals as they stand are unrealistic as far as the UK situation is concerned and need to be significantly toned down'. AFAIK the UK has the largest deact market / level of ownership in Europe + the strictest deactivation standards.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 13:36 pm 
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Statement [by the DWA - Deactivated Weapons Association] in response to the EU Amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control - of the acquisition and possession of weapons - Revised - 20th November 2015

"The EU proposal seeks to ban the sale of deactivated firearms that were automatic firearms prior to the
deactivation process"

Link to DWA Website http://dwa977.wix.com/dwa1
Link to DWA Statement as a PDF http://media.wix.com/ugd/957eb3_5b117af ... e8b3fc.pdf


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 14:07 pm 
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pdd wrote:
Statement [by the DWA - Deactivated Weapons Association] in response to the EU Amending Council Directive 91/477/EEC on control - of the acquisition and possession of weapons - Revised - 20th November 2015

"The EU proposal seeks to ban the sale of deactivated firearms that were automatic firearms prior to the
deactivation process"

Link to DWA Website http://dwa977.wix.com/dwa1
Link to DWA Statement as a PDF http://media.wix.com/ugd/957eb3_5b117af ... e8b3fc.pdf


And the rest of the wording from the DWA below that part that you selected to quote:

"We also in no way understand why this proposal seeks to include, retrospectively and collectively, UK specification deactivated weapons of this type, given that they have already been deactivated to a much higher standard that puts them beyond use in comparison to the standards of other EU member states. The EU should also note that existing UK specification deactivated guns cannot be sent to other EU countries as there is currently no postal or courier service that will allow deactivated weapons to be sent out of the UK.

Further, the proposal would ban the ownership of the above classification of deactivated firearm. This is completely unworkable and unenforceable and puts the already overworked and underfunded law enforcements agencies in an impossible position. It is also very unfair to law-abiding UK collectors who now face the prospect of being criminalised by no fault of their own. There are tens of thousands of deactivated automatic firearms in collections across the UK (we estimate at least fifty thousand). Previously there has been no requirement to record sales of deactivated firearms and as such there are no records of where these items are. Many of them are historical pieces worth many thousands of pounds and in some cases represent the only examples in existence, as not even museums have the capacity to keep examples of every firearms variant. It would be completely unacceptable that should a ‘hand-in’ of such items be required, that there would be no compensation for collectors who have invested heavily in their previously legal to buy and own collections."

The highlights are mine, and the only get-out in the wording of the proposal is to be a recognised "Body" by the member state. This, as discussed above is not yet defined in the UK.

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