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 Post subject: Air Rifle Conversion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:28 pm 
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There is a Mosin Nagant carbine for sale on Milweb at the moment which has had a .177 calibre air rifle conversion done on it. The owner is stating no licence is required.

Is this legal?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 13:07 pm 
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The weapon is probably legal but the sale must be done face to face...... read the VCR Act with refernce to sales, ownership, posession and use of air rifles......

So the manner of sale is potentially illegal...

fraught with danger innit?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 13:15 pm 
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Good Afternoon.

I think it would depend on the manor of the conversion. Brocock manufactured a Lee Enfield No4 rifle conversion using a .22 cartridge system, which, at the time of manufacture was legal to sell as an air rifle. In terms of the Air Rifle side of things, then provided the rifle generates less than 12ftlbs of muzzle energy, it is free from the requirements of a Firearms Certificate.

If the Mosin Nagant is a commercial product. ie it has been manufactured by a company as a training rifle, with a system designed to function purely as an air rifle, then, provided it is under the power limit, it would be classified as such. The problems would come if it is a live firing or deactivated weapon which has been converted, as in this case, it is now capable of discharging a missile, and would therefore be classified as a Section 1 Firearm. Another possibility is whether it is an air rifle which has had "Non pressure bearing" components added to it, such as the stock and fittings to make it look like a Mosin Nagant. In this case, then as long as the air rifle is below the limit, then it would in effect still be classified as an air rifle, however, it does technically contain "component parts of a Section 1 firearm", so MAY still be classified as such by a Police Firearms Department.

Wonders of the "variable" Firearms Act!

A J Smith.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 13:59 pm 
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I've got half a memory that a Russian manufacturer produces or produced Mossy style air rifles so it may not be a conversion. Even so, as stated, it must be bought face to face and be under 12ftlbs ME.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 14:47 pm 
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Pebblemonkey wrote:
Good Afternoon.

I think it would depend on the manor of the conversion. Brocock manufactured a Lee Enfield No4 rifle conversion using a .22 cartridge system, which, at the time of manufacture was legal to sell as an air rifle. In terms of the Air Rifle side of things, then provided the rifle generates less than 12ftlbs of muzzle energy, it is free from the requirements of a Firearms Certificate.



I believe that air weapons using the brocock system were made illegal. They had to be registered onto a firearms certificate, but could not be traded or sold on. This was certainally the case with the pistols, i am unsure as to whether you can trade on a long arm as long as its on an FAC, but i doubt it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 15:32 pm 
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REME,
i've had a look at this mate, and as pebblemonkey has stated there are issues.

If none of the above then it is fine, but if you contact him i would ask, how is the weapon cocked, how was the barrel modified, what type of spring has been inserted, and relating to this, importantly, are there any cracks on the wood work. I have seen an air rifle break apart because a higher velocity spring has been inserted, and it causes a lot of damage to the fingers.

I am a bit concerned that he is selling this, despite VCRA laws stating air rifles can now only be sold face to face (i don't think i missed it), so please be careful.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 15:34 pm 
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Good Afternoon,

Thats why I stated "at the time", as I knew the situation with the revolvers. The No4 conversions were a strange beast, as they had to have "special" projectiles.

I havent seen one around for a very long time, but would imagine that they would now fall under the classification of Section 1.

A J Smith.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 17:55 pm 
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I am not interested in buying myself but it did jump out of the page as being very likely illegal.

If it started off life as a real firearm the legality must be very questionable.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 21:23 pm 
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Lots of jumping to conclusions here. I know a company (Trapper Industries, based in the UK) that builds Mosin air rifles, not to mention SVD's, No 4's & some sort of bastardised Mauser. They are built from the ground up as Air Rifles, not conversions.

With regards to this particular sale , it all depends on whether its trade/retail or a private sale. If trade/retail, then yes, it has to be face-to-face, and the retailer has to be an RFD. If a private sale, then this does not apply.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 22:50 pm 
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Heinz the German wrote:
Lots of jumping to conclusions here. I know a company (Trapper Industries, based in the UK) that builds Mosin air rifles, not to mention SVD's, No 4's & some sort of bastardised Mauser. They are built from the ground up as Air Rifles, not conversions.

With regards to this particular sale , it all depends on whether its trade/retail or a private sale. If trade/retail, then yes, it has to be face-to-face, and the retailer has to be an RFD. If a private sale, then this does not apply.

You educate me here Heinz Can you please point me to the bit I missed in the VCR act? (not sarcasm - I genuinely can't find this bit) then I can be sure of my facts in future.

Cheers
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 0:54 am 
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Info first came to me by a fully paid up member of the BASC Huntin' Fishin' & Shootin' brigade. So I did some more research...

Good place to look up the facts in laymans terms:

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/vcract

Look under "Implemented on 1st October 2007"

Quote:
RFD airgun sales will have to take place face-to-face with both the buyer and seller present


Yup, that says RFD's not private sales.

And from my local plod:

http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Internet ... eapons.htm

Quote:
Sales of Air Weapons by way of Trade or Business

From the 1st October 2007 anyone who sells air weapons by way of trade or business must be registered as a Firearms Dealer and keep records of sales. Sales of air weapons made by way of trade or business must be in person (face to face). Mail order sales of air weapons by way of trade or business are prohibited.

Enquiries about applying for registration as a firearms dealer should be made by calling 0845 045 45 45 or by email to: firearms.licensing@hampshire.pnn.police.uk.

Private sales are not affected and do not require either party to be registered as a firearms dealer and they do not need to be made in person. The age limit of 18 does apply to private transactions (sales or gifts)


And on top of all that lot, from the Explanatory Notes to Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/en ... 60038_en_1

Quote:
Sections 31 to 34 deal with the misuse of air weapons. Section 31 requires anyone who wishes to sell air weapons by way of trade or business to register with the police as a firearms dealer. Section 32 requires such sales of air weapons to be made face to face. Section 33 increases, from 17 to 18, the minimum age for acquiring or possessing an air weapon. Section 34 makes it an offence for any person to fire an air weapon beyond the boundary of any premises.


Thank god for Hansards!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:27 am 
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There is, however, some European legislation which will raise the age limit for all firearms (including air weapons) to 18 with some exemptions. I don't have the draft document with me at the moment. The legislation will be in force in 2008 and must be implemented in all MS by 2010. It's designed to bring Europe into line with the UN protocol. As the legislation will have direct applicability, it's not that bad. The UK has some of the strictest firearms legislation at the moment, so it's not likely to change the situation.

NAReS have their foot well and truly in the door at the relevant departments and meetings are being set up with the relevant individuals to ensure we are represented. MEP Gisela Kallenbach has ensured us that they are not looking to target legal and legitimate users of firearms, individual collectors or, those who use firearms or replicas for historical or cultural use.

More soon....

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:28 pm 
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For information it is being advertised as WW2 manufacture so it was not built as a air rifle.


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