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 Post subject: The Dangers of Blanks
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:47 am 
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Real Name: Steve
Group: Second Battle Group
I found this quite by chance.
So much for a projectile being required to kill someone. It seems the gas from a blank fired at point blank range will do it.
Below is a cut and paste from a medical website

"Lethal injuries of the thorax due to shots fired from blank cartridges calibre 8 mm are reported in three cases. The muzzle of the weapon was in contact with the left side of the breast (contact discharge) and injuries to bones were absent in all three cases. In two of the cases the pericardium was not involved but the anterior wall of the right heart ventricle was ruptured and death was due to cardiac tamponade. In the third case the pericardial sac and the left ventricle were both ruptured and the victim died due to rapid exsanguination. The cases demonstrate that the gas pressure from the exploding propellent of blank ammunition can be powerful enough to penetrate the thoracic wall."

Gurowski


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:15 am 
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I have had demonstrated in front of me a 303. blank round with wooden tip fired at point blank onto a peice of paper. And quite franky nothing mappend , safe as anything in my books.... Although i wouldnt like to try it out on a hunman ..
Steve maybe you watched Tiger land too many times lol

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:26 am 
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Real Name: Steve
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redrat wrote:
I have had demonstrated in front of me a 303. blank round with wooden tip fired at point blank onto a peice of paper. And quite franky nothing mappend , safe as anything in my books.... Although i wouldnt like to try it out on a hunman ..
Steve maybe you watched Tiger land too many times lol


Thats odd, because I have demonstrated firing blanks into a sheet of A4 paper and it has made a right mess of it.
Pop a plastic milk container over the end of a rifle and fire a blank. It does a lot of damage.
Lastly, have you ever seen the wound from a blank discharge accident?

Gurowski


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:50 am 
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RedRat, only Lenin knows how the object of the demonstration you witnessed didn't impress itself on you.

Anybody else reading this, for Lenin's sake listen to what Steve has said...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:05 am 
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I'm not sure if Steve was at either Bletchly Park (many years ago) or at Longmore about 5 years ago but on both ocassions people were injured as a result of blanks. At Bletchly during the battle someone took a blank cartridge case in the face just below the eye, hospital treatment required and at Longmore someone had a blank fired at almost point blank range when clearing one of the houses - this chap had powder discharge to the eyes and it was thought for a while that he had lost his sight.

Beware of blanks as Steve said, just because they don't fire a bullet they can still do serious damage.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:17 am 
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ive had powder burns from a .22 short to the hand and that hurt like hell
so i imagine a 9mm or larger would be quite severe.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:37 am 
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I've got scars in the top of my left arm where during a battle in Bristol years back a yank fired at me from about 4 feet away. My left shoulder was peppered with shards of brass quite a few of which went straight through my feldgrau tunic and embedded themselves in my arm. I was more concerned with being deafened and offering the chap some friendly advice. Still got one of the shards somewhere, luckily he was aiming low otherwise it could have been an eye gone or worse still a scar to ruin my good looks!

Blanks are bloody dangerous if handled in an unsafe manner, if everyone has their wits about them they are fine but sadly there are always a couple of muppets around.

Think safety people and when it comes to safety ranges remember 'if in doubt, shout.' Would you rather look like a muppet shouting bang or seriously hurt someone?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:45 am 
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Location: WEST HAM
Real Name: MIKE STOCKTON.
Group: ACES, CONTRAILS AND UNSUNG HEROS.
Many years ago when the 2nd Russian Guards started I was unfortunate enough to get shot my a German with a 8mm blank.

He decided to attack me and in the struggle he was led across me and his (possibly P38) discharged with me taking the blast in the chest.

This blast tore through my uniform and resulted in burnt and cut skin.

Another occasion at the Severn Valley Railway (this is why M.O.P's shouldn't be allowed to get involved) a small scene was to be staged at a station were we as Germans were to search a carriage asking for tickets etc.

The train pulled in and stopped and when the door was opened we saw the guys we needed to question.

After the usuall hands up routine a youngster (no more than 14?) of the M.O.P variety who was dreesed as a Yank with his father in tow told us to put our hands up instead. With this a Bruni 8mm colt was shoved into my face and if it wasn't for the actions of a mate in shoveing the gun out of my face I would have had serious injurys.

I say injurys as this muppet fired his gun but the thing that stuck in my mind was seeing the cartridge ejecting up into the air and flying behind him landing on the tracks on the other side of the carriage.

No words were said but my mate looked at me holding his hand up with all his fingers up as though he was counting to five. With this I knew he was injured and called for a medic.

Luckly we had guys (who use this forum) who worked as medics etc to tend to him.

He was taken to hospitial by ambulance because it came to light that the "CARTRIDGE" I saw eject over the carriage was infact the tip of his little finger.

Also have been involved with many such incidents in my 23 years in this hobby but upon reflection they will still happen.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:21 pm 
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During basic training in the RAF when we were issued with SLR's for an exercise. The first thing the instructor did was to take an exercise book (thicker than school book @ 1cm thick) from one of the recruits and fire a blank at it from about 6 inches. Result - a bloody great hole in the middle of the book and one dismayed recruit.

Later, before the exercise started, the same instructor made us gather around, he took a thunderflash and comandeered the tin helmet of one of the other recruits. He pulled the thunderflash, placed the helmet on top and stood back. The helmet shot about 100 feet straight up then dissapeared like a frisbee into a nearby field. Of course, the unfortunate recruit was then sent off to find it.

I think that part of the problem is that some people think that blank firers are like cap guns and don't realise quite how dangerous they can be.

All the best
Jez
P.S. the bit about the finger made me wince.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:31 pm 
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Klara.. I think I know the lad involved on that one... If its who I am on about, the lad (was under 18 at the time) had his head clamped in a vice like contraption in hospital, and had bit of grit etc picked off out of his eye!

Blanks can be dangerous. I have seen many injurues. Though they seem to be reducing, as many group are now being very strict with guns (and I will say all the units I am in are on this track too). I think this move can be seen as positive.

Mind you... in earlier time periods, the dangers can be far worse! I saw a lad blow his face off at Waterloo 2005.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 13:52 pm 
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redrat wrote:
I have had demonstrated in front of me a 303. blank round with wooden tip fired at point blank onto a peice of paper. And quite franky nothing mappend , safe as anything in my books.... Although i wouldnt like to try it out on a hunman ..
Steve maybe you watched Tiger land too many times lol


You are seriously wrong about blanks and their effects at close range. Particularly those fired from rifles. Steve is right in everything he says and I can't believe you treat the subject lightly.

Blanks can maim and kill.

I have seen the terminal effects of blanks on a number of occasions and in particular I actually witnessed what Klara mentioned when the guy got shot in the face at point blank range and it was not a pretty sight. He was lucky not to lose his sight. For those who were there it had had a very sobering effect and hit home just how dangerous blanks and the hobby can be.

All it needs is someone who is reckless or who just doesn't think to spoil your day. Treat blanks with the same respect as live rounds and you won't go wrong.

Regards

Steve :)

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ES IST NICHT SHIVER IN GUTEN TAGEN
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DER STOLZEN REIHE,
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 14:40 pm 
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Any incident involving blanks or pyro should be looked upon with the same severity as a negligant discharge in the armed forces.In this hobby, acting in a responsible and professional manner while dealing with weapons/blanks/pyro must be paramount.There can be no place for arseholes playing at soldiers,who have no weapons discipline whatsoever.These things CAN kill. Tam


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 14:47 pm 
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Boggin Royal wrote:
There can be no place for arseholes playing at soldiers,who have no weapons discipline whatsoever.These things CAN kill. Tam


As Comrade Viktor would say:

WORD

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 15:39 pm 
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Ditto to the RAF basic training post.

Thanks to Steve for kicking this one off but Mods as a 'weapons safety' matter shouldn't it be in the 'new' weapons section rather than in off topic? Also, for the benefit of H&S shouldn't Redrats post be deleted as if someone reads only that far they could be dangerously mislead?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 16:44 pm 
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woodlander wrote:
Ditto to the RAF basic training post.

Thanks to Steve for kicking this one off but Mods as a 'weapons safety' matter shouldn't it be in the 'new' weapons section rather than in off topic? Also, for the benefit of H&S shouldn't Redrats post be deleted as if someone reads only that far they could be dangerously mislead?


Woodlander

Thanks :)

Have already been considering this but will trim it first.

Regards

Steve :)

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ES IST NICHT SHIVER IN GUTEN TAGEN
DAS FAHNENTUCH VORAN ZU TRAGEN
DER STOLZEN REIHE,
ERST WENN IN STURM FETZEN KNATTERN
DER MUDE HAUFE WILL ZERFLATTERN
ZEIGT SICH DIE TREUE


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 17:18 pm 
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Also remember holding the weapon out of the ground, Dirt,Grit,Mud doesn't mix well either with Blank. As it can form in to a even harmful projectile and CAN KILL ,many times ive seen weapons held badly or droped in muddy conditions without the user knowing that there barrel has been blocked. Even at night time it can be dangerous. due the limitations of vision and distance judging you can very easly get a face full of blank.

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