WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums

Uniting UK Re-enactors since 2003
 

It is currently Wed May 24, 2017 6:06 am

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 273 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next
Author Message
Offline
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:39 am 
4000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:18 am
Posts: 4012
Location: Kent
Real Name: Andy
Group: Za Oberonyu! 13th GRD and WPFG
After I wrote that I thought I might have been wrong :)

Ok, so that's further interesting really. More than something needing to be UK-EU spec it actually means that it has to be CURRENT on day of sale spec.

So at the click of a Home Office button a dealer has to spend ~£100 per stock item on work and recertification. Nice. For anyone with detailed knowledge, the actual technical specifications of deactivation for particular weapon types can and DOES change - not just "old spec" and "new spec", there are many many changes over time.

They really don't want people to be commercially selling deacs do they....

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


Top
 

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username
Offline
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:45 am 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 22:20 pm
Posts: 999
Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
Depends what it was, but I'd have thought your best bet if you were caught selling something fairly innocuous would be to opt for a jury trial. That way- with the help of some expert testimony - you could explain that the law was badly drafted and that convicting you would be contrary to natural justice.

For example, the wording seems to imply that selling a deact done beyond the current spec is just as illegal as selling one that is is below the current spec.

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:17 am 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 22:20 pm
Posts: 999
Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
Andrei Kozlov wrote:
After I wrote that I thought I might have been wrong :)

Ok, so that's further interesting really. More than something needing to be UK-EU spec it actually means that it has to be CURRENT on day of sale spec.

So at the click of a Home Office button a dealer has to spend ~£100 per stock item on work and recertification. Nice. For anyone with detailed knowledge, the actual technical specifications of deactivation for particular weapon types can and DOES change - not just "old spec" and "new spec", there are many many changes over time.

They really don't want people to be commercially selling deacs do they....


I have little doubt that your average Home Office mandarin sees deacts as an inconvenient and untidy part of the Firearms Act that they would be happy to see disappear. An outright ban would cost too much money, but making them worthless and inconvenient to own costs nothing.

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:29 pm 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 YIM  Profile

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 15:27 pm
Posts: 3317
Location: West Yorks
Real Name: Allen
Group: Independant
peregrinvs wrote:
but making them worthless and inconvenient to own costs nothing.


Worthless ??? maybe ... but then again for a serious collector the chance to buy an 'early' spec
de-act, to use a phrase, before May 2nd, is a chance not to be missed perhaps and in that then an inherent value is still there perhaps .. ie; an original item with some working parts.

Inconvenient ?? again maybe ... but a serious collector buys them for that reason, to collect and keep so not inconvenient to own in that respect maybe, whereas as re-enactors, yes we collect, but with a view maybe to selling later so yes from May 2nd it is going to be somewhat inconvenient in our sphere maybe ??

_________________
War Correspondent
United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 22:00 pm 
Supporter
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 21:53 pm
Posts: 715
Real Name: Justin Wheeler
Group: Reduit im Luft Neutral Airforces Swiss & Dutch
Redundancy will be coming to many mandarins, soon.

_________________
"Don't quote me on that !" Sumerian military expert, Sumeria 3,000 B.C


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 0:38 am 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 10:35 am
Posts: 3974
Real Name: boris bagbogbigban
maquis wrote:
Redundancy will be coming to many mandarins, soon.


most have gone, the redundancy payouts changed recently to limit how much. the trouble is that they just get replaced by people exactly the same.

you really dont understand government at all

_________________
Like a tree in a deserted forest.


If you have the last word and no one heard it - Did it happen? https://youtu.be/mQZmCJUSC6g


(No)


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:38 am 
Supporter
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 21:53 pm
Posts: 715
Real Name: Justin Wheeler
Group: Reduit im Luft Neutral Airforces Swiss & Dutch
Having seen some of these shenanigans myself, managers tend to get fat redundancy, and taken back on in a new role, or even consultancy project work.This is preceded by a year or two of natural wastage, making life for the junior staff unpleasant enough, hoping they'll leave , saving on more redundancies.Oh and the union is quite happy to see temporary staff cushion the effects ..... Kerplunk-buckeroo. Lowton's previous , is Unified Family Credit pilot project.Probably explains why she can't complete an impact assessment, or pick up a phone and speak to DWA for information.

_________________
"Don't quote me on that !" Sumerian military expert, Sumeria 3,000 B.C


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:46 am 
Supporter
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 21:53 pm
Posts: 715
Real Name: Justin Wheeler
Group: Reduit im Luft Neutral Airforces Swiss & Dutch
Correspondent wrote:
peregrinvs wrote:
but making them worthless and inconvenient to own costs nothing.


Worthless ??? maybe ... but then again for a serious collector the chance to buy an 'early' spec
de-act, to use a phrase, before May 2nd, is a chance not to be missed perhaps and in that then an inherent value is still there perhaps .. ie; an original item with some working parts.

Inconvenient ?? again maybe ... but a serious collector buys them for that reason, to collect and keep so not inconvenient to own in that respect maybe, whereas as re-enactors, yes we collect, but with a view maybe to selling later so yes from May 2nd it is going to be somewhat inconvenient in our sphere maybe ??
Cost to business impact assessment:N/Q not quantified. Lowton signs the whole thing off, without picking up the phone to DWA, on behalf of Home Oblast.

_________________
"Don't quote me on that !" Sumerian military expert, Sumeria 3,000 B.C


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:33 am 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 YIM  Profile

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 15:27 pm
Posts: 3317
Location: West Yorks
Real Name: Allen
Group: Independant
I maybe didn't word that too well, but I hope the gist of what I was trying to say came through ...

For example I have an original 1873 2nd generation Colt, de-acted in 1989 ... at present it is probably quite valuable on two points, its originality and its very early (and sensitive) de-act ... so pre May 2nd I could possibly expect a good price from it .. ?? (Im open to offers ... :) :wink: )

Post May 2nd yes it is in some respects 'worthless' as I cant sell etc under the new law, unless I get it re-done to current spec ... but to a collector there is still an inherent value surely in what it actually is regardless, yes some value is lost, but again, given what it is, hardly worthless perhaps ... ??

_________________
War Correspondent
United Press
'The Writing 69th'
8th USAAF
Somewhere in England

... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 15:38 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:55 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Surrey
Real Name: Dan
Old spec are not worthless, and as soon as we leave the EU we are free to trade old spec deacts again and surely they will be worth even more, I will post the important part of section 128 (Policing and Crime Act 2017) below:

128 Controls on defectively deactivated weapons
After section 8 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 insert—
“8A Controls on defectively deactivated weapons
(1) It is an offence for a person who owns or claims to own a defectively
deactivated weapon—
(a) to make the weapon available for sale or as a gift to another
person, or
(b) to sell it or give it (as a gift) to another person.
(2) Subsection (1)(a) does not apply if
(a) the weapon is made available for sale or as a gift only to a person who is outside the EU (or to persons all of whom are outside the EU), and
(b) it is made so available on the basis that, if a sale or gift were to take place, the weapon would be transferred to a place outside the EU.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 19:08 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 22:20 pm
Posts: 999
Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
That relies on them not changing the wording when all the EU law is removed from UK law. The best case scenario is that it is rewritten to include some or all previous UK specs. The worst case is that they just change it slightly from EU to UK.

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 21:49 pm 
4000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:18 am
Posts: 4012
Location: Kent
Real Name: Andy
Group: Za Oberonyu! 13th GRD and WPFG
I'm reliably informed that The Repeal Act will consist of the measure of someone somewhere doing a mass search and replace on the legislation MS Word documents... and that anything else beyond that will have to wait for the glorious dawning of that utopian future we are promised somewhere between 4 to 10 years from now.

Still, at least if the wheels fall completely off before we reach those sunlit uplands then all of those "defectively deactivated" weapons will be useful in some kind of mad max dystopian future ;-)

_________________
"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 14:06 pm 
Supporter
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 21:53 pm
Posts: 715
Real Name: Justin Wheeler
Group: Reduit im Luft Neutral Airforces Swiss & Dutch
Perhaps , those sun-lit uplands will be the dawning of a new film industry, making Mad-Max, post E.U. apocalyptic mega block busters, requiring lots of magazine-clicking.

_________________
"Don't quote me on that !" Sumerian military expert, Sumeria 3,000 B.C


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 14:08 pm 
Supporter
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 21:53 pm
Posts: 715
Real Name: Justin Wheeler
Group: Reduit im Luft Neutral Airforces Swiss & Dutch
By the time this all comes to pass, Vicky Ford will be free from other committments, to take up the enlightened post of new Home Secretary, hard hat, chainsaw, enjoy, Home Oblast.

_________________
"Don't quote me on that !" Sumerian military expert, Sumeria 3,000 B.C


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 15:04 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 22:20 pm
Posts: 999
Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
FYI. The business impact of this 'defectively deactivated' nonsense is apparently "Not yet validated". (page 34)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -16-17.pdf

Good of them to clarify that before the legislation takes effect...

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 19:58 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 20:23 pm
Posts: 192
With 48% of 33m voters already disappointed, I fear disappointment also looms for the other 52%. If you believe leaving the EU with its return to the 'Golden Age' will allow you to sell 'old specs' with gay abandon, I think you are hoping beyond hope. If you think you're going to sell them and export them successfully outside the EU, good luck with that. The value of not having your defective deacts cut simply falls in to the category of "nice things to have". If you want to realise the value without the risk of hassle you'll need to pay to have them cut. Anyone know of anyone offering such a service to Joe Public????


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 273 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: