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 Post subject: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 20:29 pm 
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Found this in a Swedish edition of Signal magazine

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 23:28 pm 
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Interesting! Thanks for that Ashley.

Those are Vlasov's ROA boys... don't think I've seen those particular photos before. Any idea on the date of that publication?

You'd be hard pushed to find anyone more hated on the Eastern Front than them. The Soviets had a special venom and bile reserved just for them...

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 16:26 pm 
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Andy

What style belt buckel did these guys wear. i can see a double pin belt. is the steel buckle a standard WH issue or was there a mix match of anything LW, RAD, and Russian etc?

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 20:25 pm 
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Mix and match Jon. To be honest the Signal photos are usually the only place you see that special ROA rank insignia in use too...

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 20:47 pm 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:
Mix and match Jon. To be honest the Signal photos are usually the only place you see that special ROA rank insignia in use too...


I guess it was a case of get the sunday best out for the cameras :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 23:58 pm 
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Yes, Signal had a lot of "information" that presumably was designed to misinform Allied viewers and that same information also misinformed historians and reenactors many years after 1945!

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 18:04 pm 
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I would be interested to know what issue of Signal that was, date, issue number etc. ( because it must have appeared in the German and English editions too).

Interesting to see German awards being worn, I know ROA had their own awards too.

Cheers, Bill.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 22:09 pm 
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Bill Medland wrote:
Interesting to see German awards being worn, I know ROA had their own awards too.


Yes Bill, towards the end they were authorised to wear German awards - can't remember the date... or of course the other explanation is that not everyone wearing a foreign volunteer patch is actually a non-German.... their units had a quite substantial cadre of German personnel to "stiffen them" and they wore the arm shields too!

Lastly, in the scan above, photo middle right, the guy is wearing an "Ostvolk" medal - looks like a "with swords" so issued for combat merit and definitely a 2nd class one (it has a ribbon) and I *think* its the gold one - the stripes on the ribbon look too dark to be white (for silver) so I think are the red ones of the "2nd class in gold".

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 20:22 pm 
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"any Vlasov men we came across, we kicked to death", quote from a red army veteran in 'Armegeddon' by Max Hastings.
"they were no longer Russians" a still held view I believe.
I thought that the ROA tried to revive the Tsarist uniform and insignia, once Hitler allowed the formation of Russian armed units.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 21:48 pm 
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Oh "Vlasovite scum" are mentioned in many a memoir, those traitors were hated even more than the Fascists themselves.

It didn't need the NKVD to deal with them... they never made it that far.

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:06 am 
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Russian 'volunteers' certainly 'distinguished' themselves in Warsaw when the Germans sent them in to put down the uprising in August 1944. It was a bloodbath and around 50,000 civilians were looted, raped and butchered. They were so distasteful even the Germans couldn't stomach them, and had their leaders rounded up and shot.

A nice bunch...

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:20 am 
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Ahhh yes, but that wasn't Vlasov's ROA, that was the RONA, Kaminski's 29th Waffen SS Division.

Vlasov had no love for those "mercenaries".

The RONA were never Signal's cover boys...

On the flip side, did you know that in Prague the ROA changed sides and fought for the Czechs against the Germans? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:05 pm 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:

On the flip side, did you know that in Prague the ROA changed sides and fought for the Czechs against the Germans? :wink:


They sound like a bunch of guys you would really want on your side...... :roll:

Will try to find out what the date of the Signal was - unfortunately they do not show all of the pages and covers etc in the book, just selected bits.

Ashley

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:
On the flip side, did you know that in Prague the ROA changed sides and fought for the Czechs against the Germans? :wink:

Still didn't save them from being 'put to the sword' though.
Kaminiski was some piece of work, when he heard that one of his regimental commanders was considering going over the partisans and taking his regiment with him
he strangled him in front of his men. Kaminski was executed out of hand by the Gestapo( although some partisans claim the credit too), because during the normal excesses committed by his men they raped and murdered two 'Strength Through Joy' women. Molesting German women was one outrage too far!

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 13:54 pm 
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BrianB wrote:
Andrei Kozlov wrote:
Kaminski was executed out of hand by the Gestapo( although some partisans claim the credit too), because during the normal excesses committed by his men they raped and murdered two 'Strength Through Joy' women. Molesting German women was one outrage too far!


Yes I have heard that particular story. You know he was personally only in Warsaw for a few days as it wasn't all of the 29th Waffen SS who were sent there, only a detachment. Their commander on the ground (who's name escapes me at the moment) was killed by the Poles with a flamethrower, so its not all bad news ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Russian volunteers
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:53 am 
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reddevil1311 wrote:
Andrei Kozlov wrote:

On the flip side, did you know that in Prague the ROA changed sides and fought for the Czechs against the Germans? :wink:


They sound like a bunch of guys you would really want on your side...... :roll:



Well, yes. Remember, as Andy says, the ROA were, most emphatically, not RONA. Being based around captured Red Army personnel while RONA/29th Waffen Division was, essentially, the armed forces of the Lokot' Republic - an interesting little sidelight on the war in the USSR. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokot_Autonomy

When RONA was disbanded and Vlasov was offered their personnel he at first refused outright and eventually only agreed to take them after individually screening every single one. In the event he took very few.

Anyway, some info and fairly grainy photos here...

http://www.langmanzg.com/forumview.asp? ... e_classno=

And an earlier thread about the Prague Uprising

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=27961

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