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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 13:02 pm 
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smudger wrote:
Yes Miss Joeri,

My dear old dad was a coal miner, and his father before him, and his before him. After the Great War, and the Russian revolution, there was a feeling of something new in the air, and interest in socialist ideals began to spread. The revolution alarmed the establishment but created a mood for change over here that has been quietly (and sometimes not so quietly!) growing ever since.


I was only 5 at the time of the revolution but my parents were quite excited about it.
Sadly I think that since then a lot has gone wrong with the original ideals of Lenin, Marx and Engels.
My dad even says that proper communism never had a chance in Russia as soon men with power fell back into their own manners and changed communist ideals into ideals that made them more powerfull.
We have many discussions at home about Stalin, many think that he has ruined the communist state and its original socialist ideals.
It seems to be true as he all of a sudden became best friends with herr Hitler!
I have been reading books about life in Russia in the years before the war, some are quite amazing, especially the ones about the way women have much more possibilities there then here.
The soviet state has achieved many things, afterall how many were unemployed there while we here in the west had no work at all?
And it seems that there working class children all go to school, they all have shoes on their feet and bread in their tummys.
While here in the rich west that was not the case for many years.
Still my family is more Socialist Democrat then communist, we still believe the people must be willing to choose it, I guess thats because only a generation ago we were still strong anti-revolutionary Roman Catholics!
Now...dont get me started on religion...on that matter im even worse then the communists :wink:

Quote:
I have been a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain since 1927, but it is best to keep such things quiet as a serving soldier in the British Army...


My late husband joined special mobilization clubs, organisations of Social democrats in the army, caused some uproar here!
But this war was the only one my husband agreed fighting for, after all for centuries all soldiers were allowed to fight and die for the establishment, the royals and kapitalists.
Being fed lies and fairytales about fighting for your country and your people while in reality our men only fought for politics and money.
But now its against the nazis so my husband didnt mind.
Sadly he died on the 14th of may during the cowardly bombing of Rotterdam.

Quote:
Not that I am not a patriot you understand, but there has to be a better way of running things, the lives of ordinary workers and their families could be so much better even in England - and we need employment rights, good housing, sanitation and above all, free health care. Once day this may all come to pass, if not by revolution then by evolution.


Absolutely, after this war things will change.
Afterall when the nazis are defeated how can the countries not look after the soldiers who return?
If everything goes back to the way things were there will be a revolution, this time with the returning army involved it will succeed.
I think no powermonger will want to risk this so I am sure things will change.
The socialists here have achieved a lot already since 1900, well get there comrade, march onwards!

Quote:
One thing is sure - after this terrible war is over, the workers will no longer bow down to the bosses, nor be so deferential to those who rule.

Smudger


Absolutely, things will have to change!
I have seen poverty here in western europe that is UNNACEPTABLE in our civilisation, undiscovered tribes in the heart of dark africa have higher standards of living then the workers in our slumbs!

Join me comrade in singing...

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth the old tradition
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

_________________
"Toleranz wird zum Verbrechen, wenn sie dem Bosen gilt"
Thomas Mann

"Never trust people who've only got one book"
Billy Connolly

Contact me for ww2 radio broadcasts and music


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 13:48 pm 
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I was 15 when the Revolution happened and four years later was in the Red Army fighting against the Whites, and then against the Greens who were led by Makhno the Anarchist. Civil War is terrible, they were hard times. I never imagined I'd be back in the Army.

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Frontovik wrote:
I was 15 when the Revolution happened and four years later was in the Red Army fighting against the Whites, and then against the Greens who were led by Makhno the Anarchist. Civil War is terrible, they were hard times. I never imagined I'd be back in the Army.


Frontovik, what is your first name if I may ask?
As a socialist living in occupied Holland I have only read about the soviet union and most of it was of course negative propaganda by church or the kapitalists.
I would really like to know more about how life really is like in your country and if I may be so bold, how do you think about your leader Stalin?

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"Toleranz wird zum Verbrechen, wenn sie dem Bosen gilt"
Thomas Mann

"Never trust people who've only got one book"
Billy Connolly

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 15:17 pm 
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My name is Aleksandr, my friends call me Sasha.

I won't lie, life is sometimes hard, but life has always been hard. Since the Revolution many things have changed - teachers can no longer physically punish their children for example, I often tell my daughter she doesn't know how lucky she is! In fact education has much changed, before the Revolution there were exams at twelve to see if you could go on to higher school, those who failed had to go to work. Now everyone stays at school - even the girls.

Here in the cities there has been much done, sports grounds, hospitals, concert halls and all available to the proletariat. It was in Kiev that I visited a dentist for the first time.

Stalin is Lenin's successor and works tirelessly to protect the achievements of the Revolution and defend the Motherland (OOC :wink: )

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"You may not be able to change the world, but at least you can embarrass the guilty" Jessica Mitford

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 15:39 pm 
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Frontovik wrote:
My name is Aleksandr, my friends call me Sasha.

I won't lie, life is sometimes hard, but life has always been hard. Since the Revolution many things have changed - teachers can no longer physically punish their children for example, I often tell my daughter she doesn't know how lucky she is! In fact education has much changed, before the Revolution there were exams at twelve to see if you could go on to higher school, those who failed had to go to work. Now everyone stays at school - even the girls.


Fantastic, I have a big book about the new possibilities to women in Russia, I have hidden it under the floorboards for now till the German bastards leave again.
Is it true that children no longer go hungry and everyone can afford food, school and shoes?

Quote:
Here in the cities there has been much done, sports grounds, hospitals, concert halls and all available to the proletariat. It was in Kiev that I visited a dentist for the first time.


Fantastic, or should I say disgusting that it was unavailable to many for such a long time, and still is here in the Rich west!

Quote:
Stalin is Lenin's successor and works tirelessly to protect the achievements of the Revolution and defend the Motherland (OOC :wink: )


But (if youre free to talk) do you think Stalin is following the original ideals of socialism as written down by comrade Marx and Engels or that he in some cases perhaps is taken advantage of his power?
And what do you think about the pact he had with Hitler?

I hope you dont mind me asking you all this, one doesnt get many chances to talk to someone living in Russia!

marloes

_________________
"Toleranz wird zum Verbrechen, wenn sie dem Bosen gilt"
Thomas Mann

"Never trust people who've only got one book"
Billy Connolly

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 23:00 pm 
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Well, what can I say? I grew up in Berlin-Wedding, this industrial district was always a hotbed of German trad unions, social democrats and communists.
This is a song from our area:

Berlin was always a leftwing city, due to the fact that it is the largest industrial city in Germany. Only a few districts were conservative: Lichterfelde and Spandau due to the military garrisons and the many professional officers living there and Charlottenburg and Zehlendorf because of the rich people, who had their mansions in these districts.Even during the late 19th century, when Bismarck banned the social democrats (BTW, the only party in the Reichstag voting AGAINST the Nazis, and the oldest democratic party in Germany), there was plenty of clandestine activity going on, with illegal labour unions and so on, my father as an apprentice was still involved in it.
Back in1929, the Weimar Republic government tried to ban the annual may day parade of the unions and socialist parties, the workers went anyway and the police opened fire on them. There were about 1500 people shot dead.

Did you ever watch Bertold Brecht´s film "Kuhle Wampe" about a tent camp set up at the Müggelsee lake in Berlin by unemployed people during the economic crisis in 1930, because they got evicted from their homes after they couldn´t pay their rents anymore?

After this war is over and the fascists are beaten, we´ll have to work for a just society. The class structures, which also exist in Britain have to come down.
Churchil is good as far as he stands up against Hitler, but in the end he belongs to the same aristocrat upper class, which has been ruling Britain for the last thousand years.
But on the other hand, I´ve seen the Stalinists in action in Spain in 1937. I almost got arrested by the Checkists, because I had some friends in the Trotzkist POUM party.

Jan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:00 am 
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Location: Hanging off the back of a Sherman, somewhere in France...
Marloes,

I fear for the great Communist Experiment in Russia... First Comrade Stalin has, according to what I hear from sources who had best not be named, begun a process of oppression that could destroy the legacy of Marx, Engels and Lenin in time. What cruel irony would it be for the Soviet state to mirror the hated oppression of the Tsarist regime it replaced?

We can but hope that one day, as Marx said, the state will wither away. We must fight for that.

In the meantime, there is much that is good happening in Russia, as you say. Things that capitalists will never give by choice, for they see no profit in them.

As to religion, Comrade Marloes, is that not simply "the opium of the people" as Marx rightly said? It is a pipe I would rather not smoke, offering illusions and not reality...

Yes, this is a just war, unlike the last, and we must fight it well, but it would be all too easy to exchange one oppressor for another. We must not let go of hard-won freedoms when the time comes for conflict to end.

I sing with you, Comrade Marloes! Let us march together into a bright future, our red flag held high!

Smudger

The Red Flag
---------------

Image

The worker's flag is deepest red
It shrouded oft our martyred dead
And ere their limbs grew stiff and cold
Their life-blood dyed its every fold

Then raise the scarlet standard high!
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

Look 'round, the Frenchman loves its blaze
The sturdy German chants its praise
In Moscow's vaults its hymns are sung
Chicago swells the surging throng

Then raise the scarlet standard high!
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

It waved above our infant might
When all ahead seemed dark as night
It witnessed many a deed and vow
We will not change its color now

Then raise the scarlet standard high!
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

It suits today the meek and base
Whose minds are fixed on pelf and place
To cringe beneath the rich man's frown
And haul that sacred emblem down

Then raise the scarlet standard high!
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

With heads uncovered swear we all
To bear it onward till we fall
Come dungeons dark or gallows grim
This song shall be our parting hymn

Then raise the scarlet standard high!
Beneath its folds we'll live and die
Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer
We'll keep the red flag flying here

_________________
Smudger

a.k.a. Sgt Bert Hardy of the AFPU
attached to 4 Commando
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:27 am 
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Smudger,

You mean this one?

I like this one written by Bertold Brecht, with the music by Hans Eisler and recorded in Madrid during a fascist bombing raid by the singer Ernst Busch, who fought with the 11th International Brigade:

As man is only human, He must eat before he can think.
Fine words are only empty air and not his meat and drink.

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.

As man is only human, He`d rather not have boots in face.
He wants no slaves at his beck and call, Nor life by a masters`s grace.

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.

And since a worker`s a worker, No class can free him but his own;
‘The emancipation of the working- class Is the task of the workers alone.’

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.


Last edited by jkrusat on Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:31 am 
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smudger wrote:
Marloes,

I fear for the great Communist Experiment in Russia... First Comrade Stalin has, according to what I hear from sources who had best not be named, begun a process of oppression that could destroy the legacy of Marx, Engels and Lenin in time. What cruel irony would it be for the Soviet state to mirror the hated oppression of the Tsarist regime it replaced?


Yes I agree, my husband was always saying how much he distrusted Stalin and how Stalin, excuse my language, raped real communism.
Michiel even said that real communism never got the change to prove itself, not even a day!

Quote:
We can but hope that one day, as Marx said, the state will wither away. We must fight for that.


I am sure this will happen, Stalin might be a good leader for us at this time, a country needs a strong man and some fear to fight the nazis well.
But after the war there will be no need for him, I bet that the day Hitler is captured by the Allies, Stalin will be replaced by a new leader and perhaps then communism will get a chance to do some good.
Here in Holland the reputation of communism is getting better every day;
1.the nazis hate it so it must be good
2.the communists were the first in the resistance to fight the nazis
3.the communists are now fighting alongside the allies for our freedom.
I think the socialists and even the communists here in Holland will get a lot of votes after the war!

Quote:
In the meantime, there is much that is good happening in Russia, as you say. Things that capitalists will never give by choice, for they see no profit in them.


Yes, if only someone would see the best of both worlds and somehow combine it.
Communism isnt perfect but we all have seen that capitalism isnt either.
And its pretty obvious that national 'socialism' is...well not even worth mentioning in a serious political discussion...

Quote:
As to religion, Comrade Marloes, is that not simply "the opium of the people" as Marx rightly said? It is a pipe I would rather not smoke, offering illusions and not reality...


I completely agree, except opium is less dangerous...and one knows one is using drugs and that after the effect has worn off the world is just the same.
Religioun infects the innercore of a human being, its smoke clouds not only the brain but also the soul.
Well the nazis and the communists are fighting religion so perhaps after the war perhaps we can get rid of it.

Quote:
Yes, this is a just war, unlike the last, and we must fight it well, but it would be all too easy to exchange one oppressor for another. We must not let go of hard-won freedoms when the time comes for conflict to end.


Exactly, the whole world will change after this war, none of the old but also none of the new dictators have dreamed up for us.
This time things will get better, the common men in the army and the workers in the resistance have fought too hard to simply give the world back to its former rulers.

Quote:
I sing with you, Comrade Marloes! Let us march together into a bright future, our red flag held high!


Onwards comrade, onwards towards a new world!
Step on Hitler, step on stalin, step on the church and step on capitalism.
A time free of poverty, class and war awaits!
Onwards!

_________________
"Toleranz wird zum Verbrechen, wenn sie dem Bosen gilt"
Thomas Mann

"Never trust people who've only got one book"
Billy Connolly

Contact me for ww2 radio broadcasts and music


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:51 am 
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Quote:
I hope you dont mind me asking you all this, one doesnt get many chances to talk to someone living in Russia!



OOC reply - sorry!

Talking to foreigners in Stalin's Russia was hazardous to your personal health!

There was a fair bit of inward migration to the USSR in the late 20's & early 30's. Mostly of socialists who wanted to be part of the great experiment and of people who simply wanted to work.

These foreigners are, along with the old Bolsheviks, among the largely forgotten first victims of Stalin's purges because he feared that they were spies or likely to become spies because they might feel loyalty to their old country.

Knowing one or even just talking to them could get you arrested too. This created a fear of talking to foreigners amongst Russians that long outlived Comrade Stalin.

Quote:
But (if youre free to talk) do you think Stalin is following the original ideals of socialism as written down by comrade Marx and Engels or that he in some cases perhaps is taken advantage of his power?
And what do you think about the pact he had with Hitler?


Still OOC...

The, utterly incredible, thing is that in 1930's USSR people trusted Stalin. As tragic as it seems many people who were sent to the Gulag wrote to him asking for help in the miscarriage of justice that they had been a victim of.

The Molotov Ribbentrop Pact was sold to the public as 'Comrade Stalin's Wise Peace Policy' and most accepted that. Probably because it contained a kermel of truth (the best propaganda often does) in that the Pact was an attempt to buy time to build up the RKKA and re-build the officer corps after the purges - about 15% of purged officers had been rehabilitated before 22nd June 1941.

Most historians today see the Revolution as effectively over by 1939. There was an all too brief period after the fall of the Tsar when you could state your political opinions freely and then it all stopped again. The thing was that this time there was a much more ruthlessly efficient machine than the Okhrana driving it.

A Russian joke for you...

Q. What was the worst thing to happen to Russia?
A. Lenin's birth


Q. What was the 2nd* worst thing to happen to Russia?
A Lenin's death.

*The Russian word 'Ftaroye' means 2nd as in 'First then Second'

This could get you two years :wink: .

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"You may not be able to change the world, but at least you can embarrass the guilty" Jessica Mitford

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"Memory is deceptive because it is coloured by today's events." Albert Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:21 pm 
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"The, utterly incredible, thing is that in 1930's USSR people trusted Stalin. As tragic as it seems many people who were sent to the Gulag wrote to him asking for help in the miscarriage of justice that they had been a victim of."

Sounds a bit like Nazi Germany. Many Germans, when they noticed attrocities commited by the SA, SS or SD, were the opinion that it was done by low rank Nazis exceeding their orders or acting on their own ("Wenn das der Führer wüsste!" - If the Führer knew about this!)

Jan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:30 pm 
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If you can get it next Friday (11th March) Timewatch is showing 'Who Killed Stalin' a program made by Simon Sebag Montefiore.

Ok it's about Stalin's death so isn't our time period but, if you're interested, it should give some insights into how the Politburo and Stalin's inner circle worked. His book on Stalin is the key work for this.

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"You may not be able to change the world, but at least you can embarrass the guilty" Jessica Mitford

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"Memory is deceptive because it is coloured by today's events." Albert Einstein


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 18:28 pm 
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Location: Hanging off the back of a Sherman, somewhere in France...
Wonderful!

Thank you :D

Smudger


jkrusat wrote:
Smudger,

You mean this one?

I like this one written by Bertold Brecht, with the music by Hans Eisler and recorded in Madrid during a fascist bombing raid by the singer Ernst Busch, who fought with the 11th International Brigade:

As man is only human, He must eat before he can think.
Fine words are only empty air and not his meat and drink.

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.

As man is only human, He`d rather not have boots in face.
He wants no slaves at his beck and call, Nor life by a masters`s grace.

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.

And since a worker`s a worker, No class can free him but his own;
‘The emancipation of the working- class Is the task of the workers alone.’

Then, Left! Right! Left! Then, Left! Right! Left! There`s a place, Comrade for you!
March with us in the workers` united front, for you are a worker too.

_________________
Smudger

a.k.a. Sgt Bert Hardy of the AFPU
attached to 4 Commando
http://afpu.0catch.com


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:12 am 
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hey there marlos you saucy bint i'll give you 2 pairs of silk stockings,a pat of butter & 1 litre of vodka for a night in the gondola wink wink.lol


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 13:32 pm 
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Location: Sheffield
*walks back in, face half coverd in kisses of lipstick*
Dear me, what a night.
*walks over too the bar, takes a seat next too Bill Medland, and starts to talk*
Hello, i'm an american infantry soldier, vard they call me you see. Who may you be? That's a very strange german uniform you bare, it could not be involved with these 'british free korps' rumors going around could it?

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Corbs wrote:
Well its the morning after my birthday and during the night I have acquired a large scratch on my back from a tree somewhere, a road sign, an awful taste of gin and some other wierd stuff that was like carpet cleaner, and my arm hurts when I lift it up!
All in all, fantastic!


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