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 Post subject: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 13:08 pm 
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I have heard of similar disaster that occured with the VDV that befell the British Paras at Arnhem but can't find any specific details of it.

Does anyone have any info?


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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 13:17 pm 
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Is this the operation that you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Dnie ... _operation

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 18:43 pm 
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I wouldn't have called the Dnieper River Crossing a "Arnhem type disaster"... the battle for that river crossing was an bloody epic clash the likes of which were never seen in Western Europe... The VDV element was just a footnote...

More Heroes of the Soviet Union were awarded for that action than any other FYI...

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 21:17 pm 
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Well it was similar to the extent that it was an airborne operation launched with insufficient, intel, preparation and airlift capacity.

It was different to the extent that the force was ultimately relieved, after what remains the longest airborne operation in history.

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 22:53 pm 
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Frontovik wrote:
Well it was similar to the extent that it was an airborne operation launched with insufficient, intel, preparation and airlift capacity.

It was different to the extent that the force was ultimately relieved, after what remains the longest airborne operation in history.


Comrades, It is Operations like this which likely decided the Post GPW VDV after it was reformed would be fully Mechanized, as it is now.
VDV, Urrah!, Urrah, Urrah!.

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 21:57 pm 
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You can get Glantz's Soviet Airborne Experience as a free pdf here.

http://carl.army.mil/resources/csi/csi.asp#surveys

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:10 am 
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The problem for all airborne operations is, you are dropping essentially light infantry behind enemy lines in an coup de main on some objective. Unless conventional forces link up with the airborne troops very quickly, they are in big trouble.

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:33 am 
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BrianB wrote:
The problem for all airborne operations is, you are dropping essentially light infantry behind enemy lines in an coup de main on some objective. Unless conventional forces link up with the airborne troops very quickly, they are in big trouble.


Which is what Comrade Viktor is talking about above - post-war the VDV overcame this limitation faced by all wartime airborne units and became a combined arms force in its own right, but still was air mobile! A fearsome strategic tool that...

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:04 am 
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Yes, I've seen the promotional film, light armour, howitzers dropping under multi-parachutes with rocket assisted landing etc. T-62s driving off the ramp of some Antanov transport(asuming you've captured the airfield), awesome stuff.
My money is still on the ground forces.
Helicopter-borne vertical envelopment, another RKKA development, looked the greater threat.

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:19 am 
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Yes, the DShB was a later thing but whilst it did/does have its purpose, you are back to the "light infantry surrounded by the enemy" thing again as the DShB weren't able to use BMD's or AS85's (both specialist VDV air assault armour) or carry artillery and air defence units.

The DShB units were held at army level (maybe massed and combined into frontal level) but the VDV remained a strategic resource assigned to Stavka itself. So the former is for frontal/tactical deployment, the latter is to influence things on an entire theatre....

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 Post subject: Re: VDV Disaster?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:48 am 
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BrianB wrote:
Antanov transport(asuming you've captured the airfield), awesome stuff.


Even the big lifters can operate from rough fields...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-22

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