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 Post subject: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 20:31 pm 
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Comrades,

I know that the USA loaned the VVS Bell P63 Kingcobras on the sole condition that they were used against the Japanese but the Russians used them against the Nazis. Can someone provide evidence of this? Or is this merely conjecture?


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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 20:37 pm 
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By a 1943 agreement, P-63s were disallowed for Soviet use against Germany and were supposed to be concentrated in the Soviet Far East for an eventual attack on Japan. However, there are many unconfirmed reports from both the Soviet and German side that P-63s did indeed see service against the Luftwaffe. Most notably, one of Pokryshkin's pilots reports in his memoirs published in the 1990s that the entire 4th GvIAP was secretly converted to P-63s in 1944, while officially still flying P-39s. One account states they were in action at Königsberg, in Poland and in the final assault on Berlin. There are German reports of P-63s shot down by both fighters and flak. Nevertheless, all Soviet records show nothing but P-39s used against Germany.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 20:57 pm 
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Thank you Lloyd. Do you have the title of these memoirs? Are they available?

I do believe that the Russians used them 'illegally' but wondered whether they have admitted it yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 21:02 pm 
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By the magic of wikipedia comrade..:-).......a quick search of Bell P-63 King Cobra

Regards

LLoyd

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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 21:04 pm 
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Many thanks Comrade!


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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 21:55 pm 
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Any good literature on the subject? That section of the wikipedia article isn't referenced!


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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 0:04 am 
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As if there were any kind of 'rules' during the VOV.... So what if they did?

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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:56 am 
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Shturmovik wrote:
Any good literature on the subject? That section of the wikipedia article isn't referenced!


Black Cross Red Star

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... &x=10&y=17

edit: or here http://books.google.com/books?vid=1846030412 Ospreys can be a bit iffy on the text. They've got a history of paying the illustrators more than the authors but they're a starter for ten and, of course, you get a bibliography for further reading if you're interested.

It's always worth looking in remaindered bookshops. I picked up a copy of Soviet Aces for much cheapness a while back.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:11 am 
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Nu Pogodi wrote:
As if there were any kind of 'rules' during the VOV.... So what if they did?


I just think it slightly arrogant of the Americans to dictate where they were to be used. Surely the point of lending fighter planes was that they were to be used where the Soviets most needed them and not where the Americans wanted them?

EDIT: Many thanks Comrade Frontovik!


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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 16:13 pm 
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I thought the Russians got them because nobody else would fly them.

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 Post subject: Re: Bell P63
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:25 am 
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The VVS mostly operated at 12,000 feet and below. So, they preferred airframes optimised for performance at those altitudes.

The RAF and USAAF tended to operate at higher altitudes unless on specific ground support duties - or the FW hunters with things like the Spit XII. :D

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