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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 17:22 pm 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
Group: 2nd Armored in Europe
Ive been thinking alot over the last several hours and it is starting to come together. So Im going to start at reg. and work down. Division is pretty much sorted and so is company but is all the small details in between. Ones Im not sure on have question marks after them. So here goes!

Reg HQ Co - 29 116-I * HQ xx (Holds comms and intel platoons, total 21 vehicles)

Reg Cannon Co - 29 116-I * CN xx

Reg Anti Tank Co - 29 116-I * AT xx

Reg Service Co - 29 116-I * SV xx

Reg medial detachment - 29 116-I * X xx ??????

1st Battalion

Bat HQ Co - 29 116-I * HQ 1-xx (Holds comms, pioneer and anti tank platoons, totals 14 vehicles)

A Co - 29 116-I * A xx

B Co - 29 116-I * B xx

C Co - 29 116-I * C xx

D Co (heavy weapons) - 29 116-I * D xx

2nd Battalion

Bat HQ Co - 29 116-I * HQ 2-xx

3rd Battalion

Bat HQ Co - 29 116-I * HQ 3-xx

Small xx are the vehicles serial number.

Now with regard to battalion HQ numbers (can see some of you are thinking its wrong!) I have found a picture in a book of a dodge in St Lo during the assault on the city. The caption states that it is possible that the burning truck is one of the pioneer platoons trucks hit by mortar fire mentioned by Colonel Johns (1st Bat CO) (Can only be a 1st Bat vehicles and no regimental HQ or any other 115th unit took part in the assault on St Lo). Its is correctly marked with the 115th Infantrys code (a square with a vertical line down the middle) on the left side of the bumper and on the right side marked HQ 1-14 but the picture is quite small, so hard to make out. I then found the pic on my pc but it is grainy and faint. But to contradict this picture, I have a scanned copy of AR 850 -5 which states: "Headquarters and Headquarters Company not previously identified" to be marked with "Numerical designation of battalion followed by letters HQ".

Therefore from the evidence 1st Battalion must read: 29 116-I * HQ 1-xx or 29 116-I * 1HQ xx

It can not read 29 116-I * HQ xx as that is regimental HQ.

Any body want to add anything?

I will right up the complete code system for the 29th Division minus the serial numbers, which can be added at a later date if someone is able to find it out. I wonder if it is as easy as reading the TO&E from left to right?!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 19:29 pm 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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And the picture Ive raved on about!

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/ ... 011463.jpg

Its a bigger file on my pc but thats the biggest I can up load it! So what do you think?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 21:10 pm 
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I looked in my TOE book and came up with this on the medical det for an infantry regiment..I dont know.

The book states that the med detachment, 126 troops had five main elements: HQs, Regimental section, and three sections, one each for each of the battalions. It is not listed as part of the HQs company on the wiring diragram for the regiment, but as a seperate, company sized det. It also stated that the med det was not generally part of the regiment stateside, but was attached when the unit deployed.

What is unclear for me was this a new det stood up and attached to the regiment as it deployed under the regimental flag, or was this another med det that was put under the regiment, and then either lost its own flag or retained its own flag as the XYZ Med Det attached to the regiment. I tend to believe these were new dets attached to the regiment under the regimental flag, but that is just a hunch.

I would have to look more seriously at the bumper number book as well. Med could be right in the company side of the bumper but I really dont know. This is an odd one for sure. Great question.

MAJ Tim

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1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 21:32 pm 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
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Just to cloud the issue here and the answer probably lies in the question but i have pictures in Zedenek Rouckas book "And Along Came Freedom" of the 16th Armored Division in Pilsen and they have a Med jeep of the 64th Armored Infantry and that jeep is marked

16/\-64-I....star M-3.

and also the 704th Tank Destroyer Battalion in Bavaria 1945..this was marked

3A-704TD....star....MED-1

So somewhere some units adopted the M for Medical

Interesting discussion this Major

Regards

Lloyd

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 23:59 pm 
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Lloyd,

Armoured Infantry Battalion only had 3 companies per battalion A-C, 3 battalions to a regiment so A-I, is that correct? Therefore there is no M company and this letter can be used for medical. I dont know alot about armoured so please correct me if Im wrong. Infantry on the other hand ran from A-M so M could not be used.

From AR 850 - 5 it states that a for section 3 (first part of right side) 'named company' may use 'non conflicting letters assigned for identification purposes'. So MED would be fine.

I have also seen things like..... 3A 160 S * PHOTO 6...... and .......1A-GP 3rd MRB * HQ-47.......... Now what the hell is that last one all about!

Tim,

Your book is a little more detailed then mine, I have a Medical HQ and the 3 sections and like yours is seperate on the wiring diagram not part of HQ Company. I also feel like it is a seperate med det and is under the reg flag, not a det from the med bat. But unfortunatly my book does not say either.

Plot thickens,

Jon

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 0:06 am 
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Real Name: Lloyd Richards
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Tell you what Jon..the more i think about this i think the 29th with their complicated letter/code system were a law unto theirselves and not uniform to the common ways of numbering a vehicle.

Also can you correctly identify the markings on the front of that WC Dodge in that pic mate...because i think thats not an SV company vehicle but an HQ platoon Dodge.

Regards

Lloyd

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 0:22 am 
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Lloyd,

Pioneer platoon falls under battalion HQ, there are no service marked vehicles in an Infantry battalion. Armoured Infantry have a service company in each battalion but standard Infantry battalions do not have a service company. I guess this was because of the great number of vehicles in an Armoured Infantry Battalion.

Infantry regiments have a service company, were there are 56 vehicles, I dont know if Armoured regiments have one as well?

From the research I have done only the left hand side was changed by the 29th, the right stayed uniform.

Jon

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 15:55 pm 
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It is definately not part of the med battalion for the division. I am sure of that. My only question really is it the XYZ Med Det or Med Det for the numbered Infantry Regiment.

It looks like the litter jeeps were all from this unit, and the WC-54s were from the med battalion of the division.

MAJ Tim

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CO, 84th ID, WWIIHRS
Columbia, MO
1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
Reenacting Editor for MVPA's Army Motors
"You'll be fighting WWII the rest of your life," My father in 1971


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 18:26 pm 
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Just trying to understand this myself. If there were only two jeeps per infantry company, would the vehicle company and number markings, for the 4th ID, 8th IR for example, be as follows?

4 - 8 - I * A - 1
4 - 8 - I * A - 2
4 - 8 - I * B - 3
4 - 8 - I * B - 4
4 - 8 - I * C - 5
4 - 8 - I * C - 6
4 - 8 - I * D - 7
4 - 8 - I * D - 8
4 - 8 - I * E - 9
4 - 8 - I * E - 10
4 - 8 - I * F - 11
4 - 8 - I * F - 12
4 - 8 - I * G - 13
4 - 8 - I * G - 14
4 - 8 - I * H - 15
4 - 8 - I * H - 16
4 - 8 - I * I - 17
4 - 8 - I * I - 18
4 - 8 - I * K - 19
4 - 8 - I * K - 20
4 - 8 - I * L - 21
4 - 8 - I * L - 22
4 - 8 - I * M - 23
4 - 8 - I * M - 24

Cheers

Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 18:48 pm 
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Wow,Binary code..

Great threat guy's i'm learning as well :shock: .

Dave.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 19:07 pm 
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Chris i dont think it would follow numerically like yours...IF there was only 2 Jeeps per company it surely would be

4-8I...star.....A-1 or 2

then B company would be

4-8I...star....B-1 or 2

Regards

Lloyd

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 19:11 pm 
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Quote:
IF there was only 2 Jeeps per company


So there wasn't always just 2 jeeps per Infantry Company, were there exceptions? :?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 19:28 pm 
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All Changes to TO&Es feb 44 and june 44 still have the original 2 jeeps per company. As for exceptions, I dont know, too many posiblities.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 19:34 pm 
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Although just remembered Chris that some divisions, inc the 4th were 'motorized' divisions until 43. Maybe they retained more vehicles?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 16:55 pm 
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Heres another picture,

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/ ... IHQ3-5.jpg

The picture in the book is better, but you can just see that it is marked HQ 3-5 and the caption states that the jeep is part of HQ company 115, but i'd imagine that its definatly HQ 3/115. Interesting to note that the complete code is on the left hand side of the bumper, also seen on the jeep behind.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 18:27 pm 
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Quote:
Although just remembered Chris that some divisions, inc the 4th were 'motorized' divisions until 43. Maybe they retained more vehicles?


Exactly, Jon. Hence my curiosity. To the best of my knowledge, after the 4th ID ceased being a motorised division it returned to a standard Infantry Division.

Here are some stills from some nice colour footage of F company, 12th Inf, 4th ID jeeps in England before embarkation. I've only got a short clip of it and the only clear company and vehicle number markings I can make out are in the first two still, being F - 1 and F - 2. The last still doesn't look like and 'F', but appears between number 1 and number 2. So I doubt if it's from another company. :?

Image
Image
Image

There are some nice details in these stills for reference of 4th ID jeeps in Overlord. Note the gas vesicant paint in the gaps between the star and circle painted on the windshield canvas cover. It also seems to be stuffed with goodies. Maybe camo net, maybe supplies that the guys wanted to keep dry. Also the air intake mod for the waterproofing. There also seems to be a faint LST number chalked on the front bumper of a couple of the jeep.

Sorry to take the thread of course a little. :D

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