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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 22:39 pm 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
Group: 2nd Armored in Europe
Was looking at Johnnys codes for Armoured units, I would like to know the codes for Infantry units.

Rifle company

For what I have found out is that according to the june 44 revised TO&E is that were only 2 jeeps per Infantry company, both in the weapons platoon.

so for the unit that I portray the bumper would read.

29 116-I * C ? As there are only 2 vehicles per company would these be numbered 1 and 2?

Now for heavy weapons company,

company headquarters would have a 3/4 tonner and 2 jeeps
81mm mortar platoon would have 7 jeeps
mg platoon would have 10 jeeps

So the bumper would read 29 116-I * HW ? Now I get confused as every battalion has a heavy weapons platoon, so would 1st battalion have numbers 1 - 20 then 2nd Batt 21-40 ect?

So now onto Battalion HQ

Batt HQ
2 jeeps

Company HQ
3/4 tonner
Jeep

communication HQ
5 jeeps

ammo platoon
1.5 ton truck? - i think my source ment 2.5 ton truck

Anti tank platoon

3 1.5 (2.5) ton trucks
1 jeep

So the bumper codes for battalion HQ would read

29 116-I * 1HQ ?

So how would the vehicles be number in HQ, or what is the marching order?

So the bits Im stuck on are the numbers for the individual vehicles. Can anyone help?

Thanks

Jon


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 0:32 am 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Jon battalion HQ would read ......from L to R.....29-116-I....star....HQ-( ?)

as for order of march it would be what order the vehicles were allocated in the T and OE

but they would normally be lower numbers......i.e HQ-6

Regards

Lloyd

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STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 0:48 am 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
Group: 2nd Armored in Europe
Thanks Lloyd,

But then that brings me on to the clash between 1st, 2nd and 3rd battalions. What diffirentiates the different battalions same as with the heavy weapons platoons?

would 1st Bat be 29 116-I * HQ (1-14) and 2nd 29 116-I * HQ (15-28) ect ?????
same with weapons 29 116-I * HW (1-20) and 29 116-I * HW (21-40) ?????

How else would the battalions be distinguished?

Surely regimental HQ would be 29 116-I * HQ ? so Battalion would have to be something different?

As you can see this is where Im getting confused, Ive never looked at those wheeled things before, I just walk everywhere! Can you straighten it out Lloyd?

Can someone also dig up a copy of the official TO&E so we can put numbers to vehicles? Mine off a website so I dont know how 100% it is.

Jon

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Last edited by Fingers on Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 0:58 am 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
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WOAH WOAH ..Johnny Boy dont get confused.

It SHOULD run that Battalion HQ....would be something like 10/\-20I.......star.....HQ-16

would be 10th Armored...20th Armored Infantry.....6th Vehicle of 1st battalion HQ company

or like Shadys Jeep was marked 10/\-X...star RCN -3

which is 3rd Vehicle of Recon Company (Platoon) 10th Armored (DIVISION) Headquarters (X)

its easy you just gotta apply a bit of logic.....

Regards

Lloyd

PS this overcoats warm..:-)

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STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:33 am 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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Now dont bring the overcoat into this one! So as logically as I can, you fill in the gaps. So for the 116th Infantry regiment:

Regimental HQ -------------29th Division HQ

29 116-I * HQ 1 ----------- 29 X * HQ 1

1st Battalion HQ

29 116-I * HQ 1 ------ See its the same as regimental HQ????

Heavy Weapons platoon

29 116-I * HW 1

Rifle Company

29 116-I * C 1

Now as said before the only bit Im confused about is the difference between 1st and 2nd battalion HQs and the heavy weapons platoons of each battalion. Is it that the serial numbers of the vehicles, so 1st bat is 1-14 and 2nd is 15-28?? Or should it be:

1st Bat

29 116-I * 1HQ 1

and 2nd Bat

29 116-I * 2HQ 1

So howd I do?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:41 am 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
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Jon !!!!! Division HQ was marked with an X.......so Division hQ vehicles would be marked
29I-X...star......HQ -1

Battalions would have been marked.....29-116I....star....HQ-16......for 1st battalion
29-116I....star....HQ-26......for 2nd battalion

Get it Y or N ?

Regards

\Lloyd

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STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:48 am 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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Right now I get it!!!

Sorry to annoy you, but

Just possibly the last one. Can you tell me what the code would be for the 12th vehicle of 2nd Battalion HQ would read?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:56 am 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
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What is the 12th Vehicle Jon ?...as surely an infantry battalion HQ would not have had an allocation of 12 vehicles......:-(

Regards

Lloyd

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STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:11 am 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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For the whole of the Battalion HQ and Company HQ there were 14 vehicles and like the heavy weapons company, there were 20 vehicles. An Infantry Battalion would have a total of 40 vehicles.

So within the Battalion HQ would the communications and ammo platoons come under service vehicles and the anti tank platoons use AT??

I think I need more help then I first thought!

I'll give you a call tomorrow if thats ok? Get it sorted, clean it up and then make it a sticky!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:15 am 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
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Yes Jon....AT for Anti-Tank and SV for Service Company vehicles

Regards

Lloyd

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 15:57 pm 
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Location: Columbia, MO
My unit does a weapons company, H-334th. The right side bumper code is H and then the order of march serial number. My jeep, the CO's jeep, is H-1, and the Dodge WC-51, which is to be driven by the wheeled vehicle mechanic is H-20. The mechanic generally marches last to deal with any break downs, so his vehicle would be the last in the company order of march.

I am not sure there would be any HW-? in a regular infantry battalion. It would use the company letter, like D, H or M for the weapons company.

MAJ Tim

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Tim A. Scherrer
CO, 84th ID, WWIIHRS
Columbia, MO
1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
Reenacting Editor for MVPA's Army Motors
"You'll be fighting WWII the rest of your life," My father in 1971


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 16:41 pm 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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Thanks Tim,

I just realised that last night, bought a new book today that told me all i needed to know and you have just added some extra evidence to back it up!

I feel stupid that It took me soooo long to realise that it was D, H and M!

Tim, have you any idea what the order of march is, so I know the correct numbers for vehicles. ?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 20:21 pm 
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I believe that would be a unit created SOP, but more than likely would go HQs (Jeeps 1 and 2), then the platoons in order :1st and 2nd (MG platoons), 3rd (Mortar platoon), and then the Dodge. That is how we set up our unit bumper code chart.

We have gotten so many dodges WC-51/52s now we have a H-19 and H-21, which wouldnt exist but we wanted to keep them in the H family.

If the vehicle wasnt on the company TOE, then we try to line it up as closely as possible. We had a guy get a CCKW and we marked in for the service company of the regiment. A WC-54 is marked for B Co. 309th Med, which would be the most likely med company supporting the 334th Regiment.

Also, we tend to name our vehicles starting with the letter H, as is the most common practice even today in the US Army, although this is not a hard and fast rule, and there were many exceptions. Personally named vehicles would be whatever, and company named vehicles tended to have the first letter of the company used in the nickname.

MAJ Tim

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Tim A. Scherrer
CO, 84th ID, WWIIHRS
Columbia, MO
1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
Reenacting Editor for MVPA's Army Motors
"You'll be fighting WWII the rest of your life," My father in 1971


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 20:52 pm 
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
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Tim/Jon...great info and a good way to pull info together.....just one thing though i always thought and from wartime images that M- were Medical company vehicles ?

Keep up the good work

Regards

LLoyd

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 21:24 pm 
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There was a company M in a line infantry battalion, and it was the weapons company of the third battalion, so M is probably for that. The Medical designation in a division would go on the left side, as the subordinate unit of the division...84-309 M then the company designation. The M in the company position would never be for the med unit because they didnt have that many medical companies in a medical battalion.

I hope that explains it.

MAJ Tim

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Tim A. Scherrer
CO, 84th ID, WWIIHRS
Columbia, MO
1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
Reenacting Editor for MVPA's Army Motors
"You'll be fighting WWII the rest of your life," My father in 1971


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 16:28 pm 
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Real Name: Jon Moore
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An Infantry Battalion had no medical detachment, as Tim said, the divisions medical battalion would be designated on the left side, for the 29th the 104th MB. There were 3 Collecting companies and a clearing company so I guess A - D? Regiment also had a medical detachment which had 8 vehicles. I guessed would be marked 29 116-I * X-.... ? Or would they fall under reg. HQ? I cant find a reference that they were attached from the medical battalion.

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