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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 14:42 pm 
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Location: south wales
Dear All,

This will probably bore the pants off you, but you may just be interested and I think I HAVE FINALLY cracked the answer to something that has made me think for the last 15 years or so :

In a platoon, how were the platoon's vehicles marked ?

I have been convinced for some time now that our vehicles in 2nd armored are marked wrongly and recent research from the National Archives and from Peter Domes of the TF Baum foundation have at last lead me to believe I have it right !

in the TOE's it states that all vehicles are marked in the order of march, now is that exactly as per the T0E, 1, 2, 3 etc. ? Is it as per parade order with HQ at the front or tactical order with 1st platoon at the front ?

I have found TOE's for an armored infantry company, medium tank company, HQ company & light tank company with the vehicle bumper numbers and coupling this with photographic evidence leads me to the following conclusion :

the key is that it is based around RADIO call signs, the CO in the US Army is always 6 on a radio net and his vehicle is marked 6

CAVALRY RECON COMPANY

HQ

vehicle bumper code

Jeep CO 6
Jeep XO 66
Jeep 65
M8 64
M8 63

this always steps down in numbers

Maintenance

M8 5
jeep 51
track 52
trailer 52T

AMMS

track 4
trailer 4T
track 41
trailer 41T
track 42
trailer 42T
21/2 ton truck 43
trailer 43T

Recon Platoons

1st 2nd 3rd

M8 10 20 30
M8 11 21 31
M8 12 22 32

jeep MG 13 23 33
jeep MG 14 24 34
jeep MG 15 25 35

jeep 60mm 16 26 36
jeep 60mm 17 27 27
jeep 60mm 18 28 38

Some units stepped these up one figure so the first M8 began with 11 and so on

Heavy units ie 2nd & 3rd Armored ran

M8 10 20 30
M8 11 21 31
M8 12 22 32
M8 13 23 33
jeep mg 14 24 34
jeep mg 15 25 35
jeep 60mm 16 26 36
jeep 60mm 17 27 37
assault gun 18 28 38
ammo carrier 19 29 39

Most of the above is supported by photographic evidence as well as the TOE's with the bumper codes placed with the vehicle sourced as stated above

I would welcome comments on the above layout and if anyone wishes me to post the other TOEs and bumper codes I have aquired I will be happy to do so


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 17:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
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Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Great work mate...i still say the "6" relates to

2nd Lt=1
1st Lt=2
Captain=3
Major=4
Lt Col=5
Col........who would be a unit commander=6....hence the 6 code

yes this is borne out by phto evidence......i have a pic of the 10th Armored Commander rounding a knocked out JagdTiger in Rosswalden Germany April 1945 and yes his Jeep is........HQ66


Regards

Lloyd

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STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 15:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:30 pm
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Location: Rain-soaked NW England
Group: 2nd Armored in Europe
Ain't nothing boring about getting it right, Jon. In fact this looks like a candidate to a sticky!

Thanks for the info!
Glen.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 15:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:03 pm
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Location: south wales
Oh well, seeing as you liked it !

TOE 17-27 Light tank company, always marked D for heavy armored division & F for all other Cavalry

Company HQ

jeep CO 6
m5/m24 66
m5/m24 65

Maintenance

jeep 7
track 8
M31/M32 ARV added to TOE late 1944 1 later changed to 9

AMMS

2/12 ton truck 4
trailer 4T

Light tank platoons

1st 2nd 3rd

11 21 31
12 22 32
13 23 33
14 24 34
15 25 35


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 15:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:03 pm
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Location: south wales
Armored Infantry Company TOE 7-26

Company HQ

HQ Section

jeep CO 6
halftrack command radio 66

maintenance section

jeep 7
track 8
trailer 8T

AMMS

21/2 ton truck 4
trailer 4T
21/2 ton truck 5
trailer 5T

Rifle platoons

1st 2nd 3rd

10 20 30
11 21 31
12 22 32
13 23 33 60mm squad
14 24 35 MG squad

A/T platoon

jeep 40
track with 57mm 41
track with 57mm 42
track with 57mm 43

I assume the light tank and armored infantry HQs are numbered differently to the Recon company due to the fact that they have less vehicles

Also note that this is for the Armored divisions from 4th-20th and for the 1st post June 1944, the 2nd & 3rd armored had a different TOE to this


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 17:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 16:06 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Columbia, MO
You are incorrect with the officer ranking system driving the numbers, but the commander is always 6 through this system listed below:

S-1=1
S-2=2
S-3=3
S-4=4
XO=5
CO=6
CSM/1SG=7

This is generally only used on the radio for call signs, and when people refer to others in conversation...Cowhide 6 would have been COL Hoy, commander of the 334th Infantry Regiment. How 6 would have been the commander of H company, CPT Dale Lawrence.

Units that didnt have staffs, like companies, would use 5-6-7 and none of the others. Generally in companies, the platoons were red (1st), white (2nd) and blue (3rd). The 1st platoon leader would be red 6, and 3rd platoon sergeant would be blue 7 on the company net.

Not having the commander as 1 means a little confusion on the radio net for those without knowledge of this system. (germans listening in)

The bumper number assignment is the order of march within the unit. I marked my jeep H-1. When I talked to the WWII company commander of the unit we do, I told him I marked my jeep H-1, and he said, thats the commander's jeep, my old jeep number. We marked my weapons carrier H-20...or the last vehicle in the order of march. The T/O states the wheeled vehicle mechanic drove the WC, and the mechanic always marches last to deal with any break downs.

Sometimes if platoons have a large number of vehicles, the first number is the platoon number and the second is the vehicle order of march....C-33 would be C company's 3rd vehicle of the third platoon.

There was generally less standardization than we wish with this process, and things were done several different ways depending upon the unit's SOP...or how they wanted to do business.

MAJ Tim

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Tim A. Scherrer
CO, 84th ID, WWIIHRS
Columbia, MO
1942 MB "Heep"
1945 WC-51 "Hercules"
1943 Bantam Trailer
1941 Ben Hur Trailer
Reenacting Editor for MVPA's Army Motors
"You'll be fighting WWII the rest of your life," My father in 1971


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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2008 21:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 14:10 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Germany
Hi Jon

So what would be the correct marking for my 2,5to in C.Co 82nd Recon, please? C4 or C43...and i now have a trailer as well :D Currently I have 4th AD markings on (CZ Trip) but I would like to go back to our outfit for the summer...

cheers
Uwe


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