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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:15 am 
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Yes they were 4f, and the obvious bearing on this discussion is that there has always been an obsession with portraits. Fine,so you can't use them for your research and reference, boohoo. but that's not what these portraits are meant to be for.

If you don't like them don't view them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:35 am 
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You are missing the point that they are promoted on this forum and linked to for our viewing pleasure. If they are not intended for re-enactors consumption why post them or link to them here?
What are they meant for?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:37 am 
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So let me get this right:

1) we reenactors want to see more than a face because its useful info to see the uniform/gear

2) If we see the uniform/gear we instantly launch into a tirade of "what a farb" (because something is bound to be wrong - the little boy's shoes btw... :-P)

3) The photographer is just a photographer and doesn't need to know about the subject (I do motorsport photography, I come back from the British Grand Prix with a picture of a 2013 Ford Mondeo but its not my fault that I can't tell the difference, they are both cars from 2013 yeah? )

4) Head and shoulders portraits with no background were alive and well in the Netherlands in 1947, in 1922-1946 they did not exist :-P

5) There's no pleasing some

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:39 am 
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LeMaitre wrote:
So what? How does that have any bearing on the discussion?

Of course it does ... because, like it or not, it shows that those types of pictures were around then and also perhaps that Ipswich Boys approach to the period style photography is not as far removed as we think ..??

As much as that may hurt, that's what this is about. Posting pictures that are of use to re-enactors.

It is ..??? we post pictures as information for re-enactors instead of having them research original pictures .. ??
I dont, and given the amount of mistakes (that are freely pointed out) in some of the pictures I dont see when and where pictures are of 'use' as such to re-enactors, other than to show them what other re-enactors are doing .. and wrongly it seems in a vast majority of the cases, according again, to the negative comment the pictures get ..!! .

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:40 am 
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Andrei Kozlov wrote:
There's no pleasing some
quite right

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:53 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
Pax ... :)

Maybe Ive got too much imagination ..??



I disagree you've been inadvertently bringing you cowboy experience into ww2 and by doing so have an insight that others may have lost? personally I think that is good.

I think A lot of portraits would have been posed with things wrong or the wrong belt, a gun out of place....

There's a couple of famous cowboys pics you'd know where the guys are so obviously just dressed up for the picture just as they are a load of obviously staged ones in WW2

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:54 am 
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I have no doubt that perhaps a fashion historian could maybe find fault with Keiths picture .. who the hell cares ... it is a great pic and a 'period' pic too.

A couple of mine here if I may
.. the first one I think is more for the 'aaww' factor than anything but doesnt I feel have anything wrong with it ..

.. the second one I like too but in retrospect perhaps the wellingtons are 'wrong' ..??

.. the last one caught my eye at Haworth recently, but again in retrospect in getting the film back and looking at it, perhaps a child wouldnt be reading the Daily Express .. by the way I left this one in color .. :wink:

No doubt there will be something wrong with them in others eyes ... but they are representative of 1940's pics, just the same as anyone who dresses up in anything to do with 1940's/WWII costume, uniform whatever is also only representative of the period.


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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 am 
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The kid is clearly reading the cartoons. Told you I had imagination :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:58 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
, it shows that those types of pictures were around then and also perhaps that Ipswich Boys approach to the period style photography is not as far removed as we think ..??
actually it shows they were around in the Netherlands in 1947. :D
The fact they were used even back to the dawn of photography wouldn't make any difference to my point. Les and his skill at period photography are not in question either. The onlyquestion is the relevance and value of 4f shots to re-enactors.
Correspondent wrote:
It is ..??? we post pictures as information for re-enactors instead of having them research original pictures .. ??eems in a vast majority of the cases, according again, to the negative comment the pictures get ..!! .
No one has suggested that they use modern photos as an alternative to original. Where did you pull that gem from, your imagination? Well, it's not true, another strawman.
Correspondent wrote:
I dont see when and where pictures are of 'use' as such to re-enactors, other than to show them what other re-enactors are doing .
Then use your famed imagination or perhaps that is their attraction? You can't see why, so they can't be of value to others? That's an argument from ignorance. Racking up the fallacy count today.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:59 am 
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JimmyFilth wrote:
The kid is clearly reading the cartoons. Told you I had imagination :)



:lol: :lol: I wish we had an applause 'smile' ... Jimmy, remind me to buy you a drink if we ever cross paths ... :D

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:04 am 
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[quote="LeMaitre"] No one has suggested that they use modern photos as an alternative to original. Where did you pull that gem from, your imagination? Well, it's not true, another strawman.

Excuse me Mr perfect ...

" As much as that may hurt, that's what this is about. Posting pictures that are of use to re-enactors. "

that is what you wrote isnt it ... the inference being that other re-enactors use posted pictures as a guide to their own impressions ...

You keep on doing what you want, the rest of us will do what is right ... !!!

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'The Writing 69th'
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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:08 am 
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"Of use" is no way analogous to "in place of original", your imagination must be working overtime to stretch to that conclusion.
What did someone say about context?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:09 am 
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Regretfully I am out for the day from here on in .. or thankfully perhaps in some cases :roll: ( who cares) so I wont be able to follow the thread until this evening ... have a good day folks ... will pick it up with interest this evening.

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:12 am 
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I'll miss you.
I won't be on until Saturday after about 14:00.
Should we call a cease fire? Resume 'hostilities' Saturday?

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:26 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
I have no doubt that perhaps a fashion historian could maybe find fault with Keiths picture .. who the hell cares ... it is a great pic and a 'period' pic too.


Not really, I'm no expert on childrens fashion, but I can tell those shoes are for example more modern design than any I wore as a child, let alone those worn by my father.

Quote:
A couple of mine here if I may
.. the first one I think is more for the 'aaww' factor than anything but doesnt I feel have anything wrong with it ..


Velcro on the shoes. I will admit that right up to 30 seconds a go I couldn't have told you when velcro was invented. I can now - designed 1948, patented 1955 and commercially manufactured in the late 50's. However, minus the detail, velcro isn't wartime.

Quote:
.. the second one I like too but in retrospect perhaps the wellingtons are 'wrong' ..??


You are learning! Footwear is probably the most difficult part of any impression - you either need to find the originals or a rough approximation - repro is very rarely an option. Its also the area which people are least likely to look at - unless you are a reenactor and understand the problem!

So, I ask the question - is the intent to make a faked ww2 photo? If so, then everything needs to be carefully thought out and the chances are, you cannot do this on your own as just a photographer and just as you find stuff.

If you mean to take photos of reenactment, reenactment takes place with ice cream vans, bouncy castles and MOP's in modern clothes stood behind rope barriers.

Can you minimize the effect of these? Yes you can. Can you show a photo of ANY reenactor to another who's area of expertise overlaps - no not without the subject being torn to pieces.

When photographers (and I am sure you know this Allen) post pictures of ladies in a state of undress on photography forums for discussion, the protocol is just to talk about the photography aspect - the lighting, the photoshop work, the posing of the model - not whether or not you think she is sexy or that you'd give her one because you like blondes or that you think tatoos or piercings are a turn off.

Maybe we need a similar protocol for the photography section on here.

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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:41 am 
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Euh, who asked for criticism on Keito's photo? Personally I would've composed it so that the child is slightly off-center to the right, as its looking towards the left.
Someone stepped away from the basics of proper composition...clearly an unforgivable heresy Hehehe. ;)



Here's an old one from me for you guys to pick apart
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