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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:16 am 
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Yin717 wrote:
isn't that what people said of The Impressionists?


I think that is lazy art, the first impression, they couldn't be arsed going any further and invented "a new style" and the lurvies bought into it, another rung in the emperors clothes arty farty thing which has been going on for a few years now... Anyway ...

Sorry, off the topic, but you mentioned it :wink: :D

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:35 am 
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SaddleTramp wrote:
Yin717 wrote:
isn't that what people said of The Impressionists?


I think that is lazy art, the first impression, they couldn't be arsed going any further and invented "a new style" and the lurvies bought into it, another rung in the emperors clothes arty farty thing which has been going on for a few years now... Anyway ...

Sorry, off the topic, but you mentioned it :wink: :D


Like I said, I know more about the probability of life on Mars than I do about art! lol. But I can't help but agree that I don't desperately like it.


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 7:39 am 
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Yin717 wrote:
Who I am to say its rubbish and bares no importance or respect to society?
You are a human and a member of society? You can hold any opinion you like. Don't be bullied into accepting the wishy-washy, substandard or things you just plain dont like because someone claims it is their art. If they inflict it upon you you have a duty to reject it if you dont like it. Same thing with opinions, you dont like something that gets said then challenge it. you dont have to be right, no-one is right all the time. There is an argument that holds there is no such thing as art as it is understood by most, that art is merely the pretentiousness that surrounds the creative act.
Yin717 wrote:
isn't that what people said of The Impressionists?
what does it matter what they said, you are free to like it, to be ambivalent about it or to hate it. The pretentious will try to demean you, saying you don't understand it, reading things into the piece that were probably never intended, creating the art around the subject. How stupid and un cultured you must be not to like this. The Emperors New Clothes?

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:35 am 
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LeMaitre wrote:
Yin717 wrote:
Who I am to say its rubbish and bares no importance or respect to society?
You are a human and a member of society? You can hold any opinion you like. Don't be bullied into accepting the wishy-washy, substandard or things you just plain dont like because someone claims it is their art. If they inflict it upon you you have a duty to reject it if you dont like it. Same thing with opinions, you dont like something that gets said then challenge it. you dont have to be right, no-one is right all the time. There is an argument that holds there is no such thing as art as it is understood by most, that art is merely the pretentiousness that surrounds the creative act.
Yin717 wrote:
isn't that what people said of The Impressionists?
what does it matter what they said, you are free to like it, to be ambivalent about it or to hate it. The pretentious will try to demean you, saying you don't understand it, reading things into the piece that were probably never intended, creating the art around the subject. How stupid and un cultured you must be not to like this. The Emperors New Clothes?


Exactly, I remember someone saying about Picasso "I loved his blue period", erm, he was short of money and a local painter at the cafe said "I got a few hundred gallons of this blue paint left over from a job, you can have it if you want"....

I was musing a wee bit more of this whilst grinding bolts of the tail gate on my van in prep for the welding job I'm booked in for 11am, it's this; if an artist, or a photographer throws a hissy fit when his "art" is critiqued, how will he/she know if people not, more poignantly, express they like it, but that they dislike it, how will he/she know what to create in order to make a buck? He/she spends ages making this stuff and no one comments either way, and he/she sell bugger all, and wonders why, well, no one is allowed to critique, therefore he/she doesn't know what people like?

You get the picture*

I know, pun intended... I'm off to get some rusty rear step bits welded up....Have a nice day, and remember;
"Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:08 am 
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You arrogant prat .. no one is throwing a hissy fit as you put it ... as usual you cant see the wood for the trees ... it was observational comment, an explanation and a reason why people just cant be bothered to post pictures ... or for that matter comment anymore about other things, because people like you Paul are so full of your own self importance, so sure that you and only you are the only one doing everything 'right' that all you can do is take the p*** ....
... as for 'descending' into farbiness ... its already there .. and why because you put it there, you and others like you that have the knowledge and experience but instead of passing it out in an educational manner, you just demean and belittle folk .. I dont give a monkeys toss what people think of my pictures ... for one thing you know bugger all about them or photography so who cares what you think .. Im doing what I want the way I want to based on historical fact and that by the way is with film and with film cameras, the way it was done OK .. you are I think utterly incapable of an unbiased neutral approach to anything .. !!

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 10:18 am 
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The Italy/Switzerland thing from Orson Wells is so incorrect its not even wrong.
Cuckoo clock is German, we know what they produced.
Also many nations chose Swiss Guards as their body guard. The Vatican still do.
Did the Borgias ever act as patrons to Michelangelo? Not that I can find.
Italy didnt exist as a nation under the Borgias.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:20 am 
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Correspondent wrote:
You arrogant prat .. no one is throwing a hissy fit as you put it ... as usual you cant see the wood for the trees ... it was observational comment, an explanation and a reason why people just cant be bothered to post pictures ... or for that matter comment anymore about other things, because people like you Paul are so full of your own self importance, so sure that you and only you are the only one doing everything 'right' that all you can do is take the p*** ....
... as for 'descending' into farbiness ... its already there .. and why because you put it there, you and others like you that have the knowledge and experience but instead of passing it out in an educational manner, you just demean and belittle folk .. I dont give a monkeys toss what people think of my pictures ... for one thing you know bugger all about them or photography so who cares what you think .. Im doing what I want the way I want to based on historical fact and that by the way is with film and with film cameras, the way it was done OK .. you are I think utterly incapable of an unbiased neutral approach to anything .. !!


If that isn't a hissy fit, I dunno what is...I'm done with this conversation... :twisted:

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 11:24 am 
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LeMaitre wrote:
The Italy/Switzerland thing from Orson Wells is so incorrect its not even wrong.
Cuckoo clock is German, we know what they produced.
Also many nations chose Swiss Guards as their body guard. The Vatican still do.
Did the Borgias ever act as patrons to Michelangelo? Not that I can find.
Italy didnt exist as a nation under the Borgias.


Careful Sean, you'll be accused of over analyzing it, and just saying things just to be "correct" just accept it on face value, it's just a phrase etc etc et ad nauseum roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:36 pm 
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It has wandered way off topic and is no longer about portraits but about the world being allowed to critique someones 'art'.
Sorry but we can and will. Isnt the world cruel, nasty men.

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Cant be any more off topic or off forum than hobos .. (oh I know I shouldnt but I cant help it)

..what the hell they have to do with WWII I dont know ... I have never seen or heard of a solely US Home Front event .. and I doubt very much whether a hobo would have travelled to the UK then, unless he had joined the forces in which case he would be an EX hobo ..

and what it is doing in the photo forum is a mystery too ... should be other or off topic forums surely ...
Im only applying the rules of relevancy and accuracy others like to quote, but as usual there are those that like to dish the crap out and as soon as someone does the same back the cry foul ... there are those quick to point out others faults and as soon as someone does the same back they will get upset .... double standards ... !!!

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... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 13:04 pm 
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Correspondent wrote:
Cant be any more off topic or off forum than hobos .. (oh I know I shouldnt but I cant help it)

..what the hell they have to do with WWII I dont know ... I have never seen or heard of a solely US Home Front event .. and I doubt very much whether a hobo would have travelled to the UK then, unless he had joined the forces in which case he would be an EX hobo ..

and what it is doing in the photo forum is a mystery too ... should be other or off topic forums surely ...
Im only applying the rules of relevancy and accuracy others like to quote, but as usual there are those that like to dish the crap out and as soon as someone does the same back the cry foul ... there are those quick to point out others faults and as soon as someone does the same back they will get upset .... double standards ... !!!


Errrrm*

" However, with the end of war in sight, many believed that at wars end, another depression would rear it’s ugly head and so the US government initiated a program that would ensure unemployment compensation and subsidies for home ownership for returning GIs to encourage men to settle down and raise families, this became known as the GI Bill of 1944

There is a story developing, we'll get to them joining up (ohh s**t, I've gave the story away) you seem to forget the migrant workers/guys traveling looking for work, didn't all join up Sept 1939... And are you saying we can only do British Home Front? No Italian partisans (ohh gawd, just gave another one away), no French resistance, no Germans in Europe, WWII only took place on British soil... OK, fair enough, I'll just follow the red brick road mate :roll: ,

Anyway, critique away, go on that thread, make your observations known, poke holes in the impression, I'm not a bairn and can take criticisms :roll:

* I know, I wasn't going to, but now that you are trying everything to have a go at anything now, you're not engaging in debate, just throwing hissy fits in all directions...

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 13:07 pm 
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Correspondent wrote:
there are those quick to point out others faults and as soon as someone does the same back they will get upset .... double standards ... !!!
If thats not kettle calling frying pan I dont know what is. All that from the only one to resort to name calling? 'Smart ass' and 'arrogant prat' was it?

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If it is ... then I have had some good teachers here on this forum.. !!

.. and if the cap fits ..?? ... I give as good as I get ... and of course the truth always hurts so if you cant take it .. dont dish it out ... !!

Now .. lets get back to RELEVANT topics shall we ... !!!!

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... " I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals " ...

... " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them " ...


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Correspondent wrote:
Now .. lets get back to RELEVANT topics shall we ... !!!!

Yes, lets.
4f pictures are crap. They offer nothing to the re-enactor. This is a forum for re-enactors.

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"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "
"Truth is incontrovertible, ignorance can deride it, panic may resent it, malice may destroy it, but there it is."


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LeMaitre wrote:
Yin717 wrote:
Who I am to say its rubbish and bares no importance or respect to society?
You are a human and a member of society? You can hold any opinion you like. Don't be bullied into accepting the wishy-washy, substandard or things you just plain dont like because someone claims it is their art. If they inflict it upon you you have a duty to reject it if you dont like it. Same thing with opinions, you dont like something that gets said then challenge it. you dont have to be right, no-one is right all the time. There is an argument that holds there is no such thing as art as it is understood by most, that art is merely the pretentiousness that surrounds the creative act.


There is also an argument my politics teacher strongly stands by which is everyone has an opinion, but only one of those opinions is right. Which one then?

Even if I do accept this argument, I think your active campaign to denounce and effectively rid society of it is wrong and completely unnecessary. As people have said, if you strongly, STRONGLY dislike it, don't view it. Ok so you may follow a link and see these pictures because you want informed these would be the case, you can just close the tab and move on. Or if you come across some when scrolling through pictures, just skip them. I've been following this thread from the beginning and it does just seem you have a rather absolutist view on photography - its one way or another. In the world of art (which this comes under, and whether art 'exists' is a completely different matter) there are no absolutes. And if you wish to give the argument, it doesn't benefit re-enactors (which again is debatable) I would argue, so what. That may not be the photographers audience (even if it is shared on here). And this thread was not begun (at least not the first post) on whether they are good to the FORUM Quote:

LeMaitre wrote:
If you follow links posted by photographers to pictures taken at events 9 times out it 10 you are wading through a large number of portraits.
Are these what sell?
They tell little of the event, they could be taken anywhere.


Though I will respect you did say link, you did express link on this forum and therefore it could be a link anyway - facebook ect. But maybe thats me being pedantic. ;) Seriously, did you even consider they might be shared because re-enactors on here might see a picture of themselves and maybe want to keep it? For whatever reason? As well as maybe seeing what people think of them, I'd say the photographer is also being rather polite!

Don't get me wrong, I dislike 4f. But I feel they have been some unfair attacks on the style some photographers choose to use. Unlike an impression (and again. arguably) there is no real right or wrong way in photography, just a preference. Like TV. You've just gotta choose what you wish to view, and someone giving you a link does not mean you are forced to look them - if that is what you would try to argue.


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:35 am 
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If people put up photos for public viewing, they should expect criticism, as well as praise (if and when either are merited), like I said, and I know from experience cause I've painted s**t paintings and wondered "why didn't they sell" .... "erm, mate, they where s**t"*

As for "art" and the impressionists, wasn't it Monet who wanted to burn all of his paintings when he got his cataracts sorted (ie he thought they where s**t, but the lurvies just couldn't admit they had been fooled) :wink: :D


*And please D O N 'T interpret that as saying any of the photos listed in this thread where s**t for goodness sake (the "i'm offended" brigade rearing it's ugly head)...

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ohh look, they got dirty faces ... They say imitation is the best form of flattery ... Done it in 2002 with cries of "hey, did ye no wash yer face this morning"

Strange, they only post in my threads when it's controversial, seems they want to vent their spleens whilst claiming victimhood ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEwVpWFyy3M


"I don't use the pozi net ,because there are too many left wing oversensitive retards on there..."

"I reflect on the infamous 1987 photograph by American artist Andres Serrano that depicts a crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. I remember all the leftists that jeered and mocked me, and many Christians like me, for being bruised by that photograph (the title of which I would rather not verbalize). They scoffed and told us to get a life. These are the same people today, unsurprisingly, who are stridently arguing for curtailment of free speech not to offend Muslims."


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