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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 13:45 pm 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
Real Name: Andy Ansell
Group: AFRA, Oxf & Bucks LI, British Airborne Platoon
I am after some advice on the best Tan & Water camouflage on the market at the moment. I have been looking around at a number of dealers such as Zeugmeister, Richard Underwood, SoF, Epic Militaria, Keith from Hong Kong and Barry Lyndon. A couple of years ago I bought a Tan & Water parka from Keith in Hong Kong, I thought it was a good rendition of the camouflage and the garment was well made.

However, I am not so sure now, I am looking to buy a new parka and an oversmock (the type with the hood) and some material to make a helmet cover.

What do you all think?

Cheers,

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 17:20 pm 
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Location: Scunthorpe, N.Lincs
Real Name: Sean Tighe
Group: AFRA, by far the most flexible way to re-enact
You really dont want to waste time and effort on a Sumpf helmet cover. If rocking horse poo is rare these were almost non existant. Never issued, the one or 2 known to exist are field made. It would be a point of interest amongst the other germans but not for the right reasons. A bit like having round ends on your obli patches.
I like the SM Wholesale tan and water print, and the new Sturm version is quite good too.

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 18:08 pm 
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Stigroadie wrote:
You really dont want to waste time and effort on a Sumpf helmet cover. If rocking horse poo is rare these were almost non existant. Never issued, the one or 2 known to exist are field made. It would be a point of interest amongst the other germans but not for the right reasons. A bit like having round ends on your obli patches.
I like the SM Wholesale tan and water print, and the new Sturm version is quite good too.


Stig,
Point taken about helmet covers.

Excuse my ignorance, but have you any links to dealers that sell the stuff you recomend?

Cheers,

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:03 am 
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Location: Scunthorpe, N.Lincs
Real Name: Sean Tighe
Group: AFRA, by far the most flexible way to re-enact
I was going to suggest 1944 Militeria for the SM Wholesale stuff but they seem to be out of stock.
Here is the link for future ref. though http://www.1944militaria.com/heer_luftwaffe_camo.htm
Zeugmeisterei have the Sturm stuff and some great quality european made kit[not sumpfh though]
http://www.zeugmeisterei.com/cms/en/ind ... 05b496148f
The Sturm stuff is not too hard to find in the UK. Richard Underwood has it now, call him to see what he has in stock zero7958449one6one. I think Soldier of Fortune are stockists too, better to see their stuff in person I always think.
You could try SM Wholesale direct but they have a reputation, not the easiest to deal with unless you are buying bulk. http://www.smwholesale.com/

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:47 am 
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What is your opinion of these reproductions?

Image

Image

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Andy

please ignore the photo i took it years ago, will post a new photo shorty.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:36 pm 
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here are a few of our items, to really appreciate them hey need to be seen in the flesh


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 14:09 pm 
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Location: Scunthorpe, N.Lincs
Real Name: Sean Tighe
Group: AFRA, by far the most flexible way to re-enact
There are 2 main versions of the Sumpf/marsh/tan and water camo. A '43 version and a '44 version. The '44 version has less defined, more fuzzy, edges to the green and red brown areas.
It's very hard to be subjective about a photograph of a camo pattern and from memory. I cant get to my books for a while yet. That said, of the 2 you posted I like the pattern of the parka best [though it is missing some of the straightline edges to the blocks of colour that I associate with this pattern] but the colours of the smock. I dont remember the rain over print turning tan over the brown areas as it does on the smock either. So neither are spot on in my opinion.
I dont remember the pattern having the jaggy elements shown in the smock. That to me suggests post war BGS camo. The patterns and colours of sumpf and BGS are not the same. I'd say the stuff posted by 'the reich stuff' also shows a bgs feel. It is certainly closer in pattern to bgs than to sumpf.
These are only my opinions on these prints, dont take them to be 100% or the only version. Until I can get to some hard paper facts I'm a little loathe to be too committed. The internet is a little vague on this pattern.

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:15 am 
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Gotta admit the first photo isnt the best Sumpfmuster 43 (I know the correct term now :D), however the further photos 'The Reich Stuff' posted look much better. I agree about the tan raindrops on the dark/red brown should not be there.'The Reich Stuff's' second pictures are MUCH better.

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:07 am 
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Real Name: Andy Ansell
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I have now done a lot of internet surfing and research from a number of reference books. So here goes (please dont crucify me if I get things horibly wrong).

Sumpfmuster was introduced in late 42 early 43. Initially there were two colour bases, green and brown/tan. The splinter panterns were more defined similar to Splintermuster. There was some raindrop/mottled blotches seeping over the hard edges to soften the look. This was known as Sumpfmuster 43 (green & tan). The green version is probably from the manufacturers changing from Splinter to Sumpf.
Image
Original 'green' Sumpfmuster 43
Image
Original 'tan' Sumpfmuster 43
Image
Repro 'green' Sumpfmuster 43 by SMwholesale.
Image
Image
Two repro 'tan' Sumpfmuster 43 from Richard Underwood.
Image
Repro 'tan' Sumpfmuster 43 from Militaria Net.

In 1944 the Sumpfmuster 44 came out which had a sofet, blended in camouflage pattern. The hard edges now gone.
Image
Original Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Image
Repro Zeugmeister Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Repro SoF Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Repro Militaria Net Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Repro 1944 Militaria Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Repro Epic Militaria Sumpfmuster 44.
Image
Repro Sumpfmuster 44 from Barry Lyndon.
Image
Original Sumpf 44 at fromt and Sumpf 43 at rear.
Image
Original Sumpf 44 at left and Sumpf 43 at left.

Now the question is which is the best reproduction???

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:25 am 
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Andy
just to help ,mine and richard underwoods are the same, come from the same maker, just me and him who sell these. Also epic`s parkas and mine are the same both sturm mil-tec. I belive Ru also sells these.

cheers
Anthony


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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:58 pm 
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the reich stuff wrote:
Andy
just to help ,mine and richard underwoods are the same, come from the same maker, just me and him who sell these. Also epic`s parkas and mine are the same both sturm mil-tec. I belive Ru also sells these.

cheers
Anthony


Certainly the second pictures you showed us are of a MUCH nicer Sumpf 43, you never know an order may be coming your way shortly :wink:

Andy Ansell

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 16:26 pm 
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Hi everyone,

please, is this the "new" Sturm version?
And can anyone specify the difference between the old and new Sturm tan water parkas production?

http://www.sturm-miltec.de/index.php?WH ... 6c4b2959a9

Thanks!
Martin

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