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1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?
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Author:  peregrinvs [ Mon Apr 24, 2017 15:33 pm ]
Post subject:  1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Hi,

I'm considering restoring this 1940 dated MkII helmet that has been attacked with silver paint. I've photographed what appears to be the original paint in the interior, which is a yellowish/greenish brown colour.

Could anyone confirm or deny my hypothesis that this is faded Khaki Green No.3 paint? I've read elsewhere that this is the sort of colour it goes when the green pigment fades. I've also read that KG3 was the 'basic' vehicle / equipment paint colour circa 1939-41.

Thanks,
Mark

Author:  30thcammo [ Mon Apr 24, 2017 19:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

I thought some early helmet colours were service brown.

Author:  REME 245 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

You asked this question somewhere else but I would have to agree with the other source Service Brown Paint SCC2 which would suggest its not the original coat of paint.

Author:  pioneer64 [ Tue Apr 25, 2017 18:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Don't know if this will be any help to you Mark

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=89324

Author:  peregrinvs [ Wed Apr 26, 2017 19:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've been reading various threads here and elsewhere and studying pictures. There's also a good guide to paint colours here:

http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/starmer%20camo.htm

I decided to try a little experiment in colour contrast with my helmet. Whilst I don't have any samples of SCC2 Service Brown paint, it occurred to me that it was not entirely dissimilar to the colour of milk chocolate. I therefore raided the Cadbury's Roses box with the result below.

To my eyes there's now a definite green element to the paint, which - in theory - SCC2 doesn't have. I think I'm therefore going to stick with my faded KG3 theory. As well as the colour, KG3 seems to be correct for 1940 and I can't see any evidence that the helmet was repainted post manufacture - unless it was stripped to bare metal first.

For context, the maker mark appears to be F&L and it has a 1939 dated matching F&L made liner. The helmet was part of a group along with a CD black painted MkI* helmet and a CD type gasmask. Here's some examples of 1939 and 1940 dated F&L made MkII's which I think are painted in smooth KG3 paint:

https://hatchfive.wordpress.com/2015/05 ... el-helmet/

http://www.warstuff.com/Original-WWII-1 ... t-i927.htm

I think my MkII will make a nice little restoration project when I have got it back to bare metal. KG3 paint is expensive pre-made because it isn't a BS colour, but you can make it by blending Humbrol or Revell model paints. Just need to buy enough 14ml tins to paint a helmet...

Author:  pioneer64 [ Thu Apr 27, 2017 18:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Great links Mark, thank you for sharing, if you do get more Cadbury's Roses give me a shout :wink:

Gerwyn

Author:  peregrinvs [ Wed May 17, 2017 13:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Update: I have made up some KG3 paint and put a first coat on the exterior.

The recipe is five parts Humbrol 155 Olive Drab Matt to one part Humbrol 10 Service Brown Gloss. I found this on the web published by a chap named Mike Starmer who appears to be acknowledged as the guru on WWII British military paint colours. He'd arrived at it via some experimentation matched to original samples, etc. In order to make up 60ml of paint, I used x4 14ml pots of Olive Drab and x1 14ml pot of Service Brown. (i.e. 50ml of Olive + 10ml of Brown) He'd actually intended it as a means of making a small sample to colour match for MV restorers, but I thought why not just scale it up a little?

So far so good and the colour looks 'right' to me = olive green with a tinge of brown. It should also dry with a slightly satin finish which I think is period correct. (In the interests of authenticity, I have used enamel rather than acrylic) Initial indications are that 60ml will be more than enough.

I'll do some more pics when it's finished. :)

Author:  pioneer64 [ Thu May 18, 2017 17:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

I like what you have done so far 8)

Gerwyn

Author:  30thcammo [ Thu May 18, 2017 18:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Just to add service Brown can come in two shade of colour as Matt differs to gloss. Gloss gives a more chocolate brown where as the matt is much lighter in shade.

Author:  earlymb [ Thu May 18, 2017 18:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Did you sprinkle sand over the wet paint?

Author:  peregrinvs [ Fri May 19, 2017 14:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

pioneer64 wrote:
I like what you have done so far 8)

Thank you. I've since put on a second coat. I'm using a brush so it's not as even as the original sprayed finish, but I'm generally happy with it.

Author:  peregrinvs [ Fri May 19, 2017 14:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

earlymb wrote:
Did you sprinkle sand over the wet paint?

No. I'm trying to replicate the original finish which appears to be untextured.

Coincidentially, I recently restored a WWI MkI Brodie helmet. There were a few remnants of what appeared to be sand textured paint, so I recreated it.

Author:  peregrinvs [ Fri May 19, 2017 14:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

30thcammo wrote:
Just to add service Brown can come in two shade of colour as Matt differs to gloss. Gloss gives a more chocolate brown where as the matt is much lighter in shade.

Agreed. Having looked into it, Service Brown is a 'complicated' colour.

Which gives me an excuse to show off a recent acquisition... :) a MkIII helmet made by F&L in 1944 with it's original textured Service brown paint.

Author:  blueknighttbk [ Fri May 19, 2017 14:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

I have a 39 dated helmet in what looks to be original service brown and that isn't textured.

Author:  pioneer64 [ Sun May 21, 2017 13:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

peregrinvs wrote:
30thcammo wrote:
Just to add service Brown can come in two shade of colour as Matt differs to gloss. Gloss gives a more chocolate brown where as the matt is much lighter in shade.

Agreed. Having looked into it, Service Brown is a 'complicated' colour.

Which gives me an excuse to show off a recent acquisition... :) a MkIII helmet made by F&L in 1944 with it's original textured Service brown paint.


It looks like the colour on you mk111 helmet, been painted for the Korean campaign.

Gerwyn

Author:  peregrinvs [ Wed Jun 07, 2017 20:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1940 MkII Helmet - Khaki Green No.3 Paint?

Finished. :D

The paint isn't as smooth as I'd like as I've used a brush rather than a spray. But some buffing with fine wire wool and a microfibre cloth has smoothed it off a bit. I've replaced the chinstrap, but all the other parts are original. If we stick with the assumptions that it was factory painted in KG3 and the Mike Starmer recipe for duplicating KG3 is broadly accurate, then in theory it is now back to close to it's original 1940 appearance.

KG3 is a slightly odd colour - in lower light levels it can look more brown than green. Definitely subtly different to ordinary olive drab. As colours on computer monitors can never be trusted, I've included a comparison picture with other helmets in my collection. From right to left they are:

- MkI restored in my own homebrew WWI style green tinged khaki
- MkI* with original CD black overpaint
- The KG3 MkII
- MkIII with original Service Brown paint

Hope this is of interest. It may add something to the 'What colour were BEF period helmets?' question.

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