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 Post subject: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:38 am 
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Real Name: jim
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Firstly does anyone know if the paint sold at epic militaria is the right colour? Particularly the tropical sand, and is it a reasonable price?

Secondly I've seen a few photos of fallschirmjager with goaty beards both in and out of combat and was wondering if anyone knew of a reason for this, is it a sign of rank/status or just a fashion thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:42 am 
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I think beards were worn by guys who had been out of the rear and on the front for some time and could get away with it.

Normally in most armies of the time you'd have to have a good reason to be excused shaving - like facial injuries.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:12 am 
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I think beards on ground troops was generally an eastern front thing and I wonder whether the original point of the photos we've all seen was that it was unusual in itself:

"OMFG, look what Klaus got away with after the Spiess copped it and the Hauptmann ran away"

I've not seen any pics of FJ with beards tho...

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 14:09 pm 
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I guessed the full beards would be dictated by extremes of temperature, too hot in the desert, too cold on the eastern front, on both occasions not worth wasting water. But a few pics I've seen in soldat 8 and a few other books ( I admit it's not many) show shaved in goaty beards, maybe some kind of badge of honour as it were?


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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 16:08 pm 
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[quote="fjh1975"], maybe some kind of badge of honour as it were?[/quote

No, i seriously doubt it.

In a regiment that prides itself in being elite and in an army that gave out awards with the rations why would you need a 'badge of honour' out of facial hair.

FJ are not my field but in 25 years of being interested in WWII i've never heard of not shaving being a mark of honour in anything other than pioneer sgts in french and british armies and then it *has* to be a full beard.

Those few photos (and were talking one or two among *thousands* of men) are blokes who got away with it before someone higher up caught them and told them to shave it off. Most likely they are either so far up front that no one cares how they look as long as they can fight or they may have a shortage of razor blades (not a joke it did happen, its why some soviet soldiers had big moustaches to conserve razor edges).

If they are all goatees it was probably a 'fashion' all armies have legions of bored young men who always create new ways to push against regulations in the way they wear their kit and present themselves.

Are you wondering about this so you can re-enact FJ and still have a beard?

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 17:25 pm 
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I've seen one picture in Soldat Volume 8 of a "Fallschirmjager" with a "goaty beard". I am unsure if it is a accurate picture, it just doesn't look right to me.

I have seen pictures of fallschirmjager with beards fighting on the eastern front. Possibly in mountains so they could have been subject to the same regulations as the gebirgs. Also the "Dying for St Lo" book has a few good pics of fallschirmjager sporting beards, but they had been in a foxhole fighting for several day's.

As far as I'm aware only Gebirgsjäger and U-boat crew on active duty were permitted to wear full beards. Also those suffering severe facial injury were permitted.

Regards,

Gary.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 18:35 pm 
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there is a pic in one of the osprey books with a fallshy showing a bear, however as far as i know the most you were allowed was a mustache no more.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 19:44 pm 
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In reply to gadge as it happens I do have a rather fine and it has to be said full beard and if that were the issue I'd just trim it shorter dirty myself up and climb in a foxhole, no the thing I'm interested in is the goatee not from a reenactment point of view but simple interest, I've seen a couple of shots of modern German paras in the middle east with goatees as opposed to the full set our boys wear in theatre.
I know it a few pics out of probably thousands but it is noticeable as being out of the ordinary. Maybe as jaws states its something to do with Gebirgsjager, either transferring to fallschirmjager or fallschirmjager having done Gebirgsjager training? Or maybe just wrongly captioned? Or as gadge said maybe its just young boys trying to get away with it as a way of relieving the boredom.


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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 13:57 pm 
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I do remember one of the chaps in my group asking our CO if he could sport a gotee, our CO said if you can find atleast 5 origional images showing fallshys sporting gotee's, he did and was then told no, the reasos for this as far as I am able to gather from reading is that a moustache was the only official facial hair allowed unless you could get away with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 14:15 pm 
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fjh1975 wrote:
I guessed the full beards would be dictated by extremes of temperature, too hot in the desert,

I wonder how the indigenous Arab population get on with their beards?
Beards are great for helping defeat the fly menace to some degree.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 14:20 pm 
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perhaps in hot environments they would also be an advantage at night due to the cold weather.

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 14:49 pm 
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Beards are usually allowed by the British Army in hot climates with poor water supply for one of two reasons.

1. water conservation
2. infection, in the desert and the jungle the smallest cut can easily become infected by the numerous flies and other parisites (you can see plenty of eight army lads covered in bandages where they have weeping sores from infections)

These days the army allow some soldiers to grow beards to become more accepted by the muslim population but as one chap serving out there told me it makes no difference you're just a white bloke with a beard rather than just a white bloke to them...

I would imagine the german experience in the western desert were the same as that of the British and that troops on the frontline who might be behind the lines for some time or away from the regular supply chain were given some allowance in not shaving. If you've got two pints of water a day to live on its ludicrous to use even an eigth of it to shave.

Most photos show clean shaven lads as the PR machine wanted them to look good but you do see enough of troops in the desert and med looking decidely scruffy to know it cant have been all the guys all the time.

Personally though I tend to do all my impressions clean shaven unless its something like a 'day three of arnhem' scenario where I sometime let soem stubble grow.

Given that shaving '40s style' on your display is *guaranteed* to draw a crowd of watchers to see how it was done its an easy 'entertainment' to do anyway.

I'd just shave it all off tbh... i mean how long does it take to grow back anyway? A month tops?

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 15:04 pm 
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I shave '40's' style normally anyways :lol: , leather case with tortoise shell Bakelite box inside with safety razor, brush and soap stick, the razor blades are so much cheaper than the modern multiple blade ones that you get 4 for £3 or something ridiculous....
:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 16:37 pm 
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"I've seen a couple of shots of modern German paras in the middle east with goatees as opposed to the full set our boys wear in theatre"

The Bundeswehr is not the Wehrmacht.

In Poppel's book ("Heaven and Hell") he specifically mentions troops shaving in the field, sometime after D-Day, despite the rigors of daily combat. While there are numerous photos of troops (of all branches) with beards, there are many many more photos of troops who are clean shaven. I know who want to portray...

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 19:31 pm 
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Colourwise, I'd recommend Tamiya's wooden deck tan spray paint. It has a pale tan finish rather than the more yellowish colour often found, it looks very much like the colour used in Normandy!

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 Post subject: Re: Paint and beards?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:23 am 
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The Danish are aloud beards as standard, but I don't know about back then?


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