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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:29 am 
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Just some questions about them really,

Was it 500, or 600, or both, and what's the difference?

Am I right in thinking it was a penal unit, if so what type of crimes were commited?

SS camo Knockensack, were they ever a reality, or just a myth?

And does anybody have any other interesting info, pictures or recommended reading on the subject?

Many thanks


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 13:17 pm 
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Location: birmingham U.K.
They were a penal unit to start off with,most were SS there were some army in there too,as to there crimes,i could only hazard a guess.
500 became 600 after the hard fought battle against Tito's partizans,it was felt that they had regained there Respect and they were then permitted to reattach there insignia.
No spotty smocks were issued,atleast there is no confirmed pictures of any issued,though about 6 supposedly turned up at Dachau when the Americans captured it .there is one picture of an ss man in a smock wearing an ss arm Eagle,though now i can't remember wether it was splinter or Green.
The SS para's never applied insignia to there Helmets.
Sorry i can't be of more help but SS para's arn't really my thing.
i'm sure there is a book produced,perhaps someone can enlighten us.
Regards
Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 14:25 pm 
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Location: chatham, kent
Hello pete,
Battalion 500 first went into action in the beginning of 1944,like bob,said it was made up of military criminals as well as volunteers.
The attack on tito,s H.Q was givern to Hauptsturmfuhrer Rybka,also the SS Prinz Eugen Division took part.
Most of the photographs i have seen shows Batt500/600 wearing splinter.
The above info can from two books,which i managed to get for a couple of quid from a second hand bookshop, they are Hunters From The Sky by charles whiting and also Storming Eagles by james lucas,both agood read. cheers ross

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 16:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 19:20 pm
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Location: Germany
hello
Ok, there are 2 books. One is a bit older (1999 out of print) that i have and the other just came out a short time ago,dont have it already:

Authors: Kunzmann-Milius
Title: "Fallschirmjäger der Waffen-SS im Bild"
Publisher: Munin/Nation Europa Verlag ISBN 3-920677-29-3
i paid back then 22,60 quit-now as a collectors item approx 68 quit!!!
Great book,bilingual german /english, hundreds of pictures -a must have!
The author Siegfried Milius was the last commander of that unit.
Amazon or ebay have it sometimes

NEWLY PUBLISHED:
Rolf Michaelis
SS-FALLSCHIRMJÄGER-BATAILLON 500/600
130 pages, 80 pictures
cost without shipping is 17 quit
link to the pulisher`s own shop: http://michaelis-verlag.de/shop2002/

If there are any questions left just let me know
regards
Detlef


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 18:14 pm 
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Wow, you guys have been a big help, I'll look into those books.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 20:43 pm 
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Location: Warrington (UK)
Real Name: Rod Shack
Group: Heeres Inf Bat 561 zbV, The Diggers, Das Reich
Panzerklein Pete wrote:
Just some questions about them really,

Was it 500, or 600, or both, and what's the difference?

Am I right in thinking it was a penal unit, if so what type of crimes were commited?

SS camo Knockensack, were they ever a reality, or just a myth?

And does anybody have any other interesting info, pictures or recommended reading on the subject?

Many thanks


Hi Pete

to answer your questions - as Bob has stated, 500 became 600 after the raid on Tito. They always wore insignia even when they were 500 Batl. Only Penal units (as far as I know) were stripped of insignia. Helmet insignia was normally the Luftwaffe eagle as the helmets were standard LW stock items. Have not seen any double decalled ones worn though.

They weren't a Penal unit - the were classed as bewaerungs (apologies - my laptop doesn't do umlauts). Bewaerungs was a "rehabillitation" title, which encompassed many acts deemed less of a soldier by the German military (i.e. falling asleep on duty etc). From what I have read the guys in 500 were not hardened criminals, but placed in this unit for petty "crimes".

All the pictures of smocks I have seen are splinter, although I've seen one NCO wearing a green smock. I haven't personally seen pictures of the pea pattern smock worn, but I know someone who has evidence.

Reading - you've already been recommended the best (few) books on the subject.

Good luck in your quest. If I can help in anyway please drop me a line.

Cheers.

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Das Leben ist wie Krieg. Es gibt viele Schlachten zu gewinnen oder verlieren, sondern immer einen neuen eine warten.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:38 am 
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Thanks mate, thats really kind of you, its certainly an interesting subject.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:13 am 
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Location: Warrington (UK)
Real Name: Rod Shack
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Hi Pete

Could be that Bob Sellers was partially right. I'ce just got the new Rolf Michaelis book and there are pictures of 500 guys wearing blank collar patches. However the Milius book shows pictures of "500" troops who seem to be wearing SS runes as per standard.

Now there's more research to do.

Cheers

Rod

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http://thediggerslhg.co.uk
http://www.561zbv.co.uk

Das Leben ist wie Krieg. Es gibt viele Schlachten zu gewinnen oder verlieren, sondern immer einen neuen eine warten.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 18:33 pm 
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Location: Germany
I will ask the author Michaelis as for the pictures if you like.
regards
Detlef


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 19:47 pm 
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Location: Warrington (UK)
Real Name: Rod Shack
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Hi Detlef

Many thanks for your kind offer. The book is great (just need to brush up on my German).

I think I've worked out the collar tabs thing. Basically ranks below Sturmmann did not wear the runes on the collar patch. Sturmmann and above wear permitted to wear them (hence the confusion).

Seems that all ranks were permitted the SS runes on the collar patch after the change in designation to 600.

Please pass on my compliments to him for such a good book. I think the FJ histories have been lacking this information on the SS formation for a long time.

Cheers

Rod

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Rod Shack

http://thediggerslhg.co.uk
http://www.561zbv.co.uk

Das Leben ist wie Krieg. Es gibt viele Schlachten zu gewinnen oder verlieren, sondern immer einen neuen eine warten.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 14:01 pm 
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Location: Kent
Some images of Btl 500-600 here.

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5361

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:13 am 
i just bought the Kunzmann-Milius book and I'm amazed that there are so many pictures in it!
Lovely book and I payed only € 30, wich is about £ 20! It was in a fair for only Flemish collectables and I never expected to find it there :D


Last edited by oli4vercammen on Fri Nov 30, 2007 13:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 17:24 pm 
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Location: Germany
Hello All
Just wanted to tell you if you didnt know already that the Kunzmann-Milius book "Fallschirmjäger der Waffen-SS im Bild " was newly "reprinted" (new edition) and is avaiable in the shops by now or very soon.It was supposed to came out on september 28th published from "Verlag deutsche Stimme".
# ISBN-10: 3935102186
# ISBN-13: 978-3935102186

Price on german ebay is 19.80 euro/ 13.80 GBP/ 28.19USD
Since books have a uniform price in germany you should get it nearly everywhere for the same.Or just try amazon...........
Regards
Detlef


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 18:25 pm 
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Location: Southampton
on the subject of books, i'm always a little wary of a book that uses photoshop on it's front cover. here is the original photo (p. keating) that was used on the front of Rolf Michaelis book:

Image

this photo does not show members of SSFJ, but another battalion of FJR. also for your reading pleasure on this subject

Image

i've seen this one in both english and german text and it's available somewhere on german e-bay - i've lost the link!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 21:08 pm 
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Location: Ireland
Hi Guys , if this is of help I have a copy of the "Tagebuch" in German written by SS-FJ Leonard Schaap .I will gladly make copies if anybody wants a copy .I also have some nice and rare photos of SS-FJ which came from the vets themselves .Patrick Agte is about to bring out a new book on the SS-FJ 500/600 which also has new material .
It is great to see Rod and his group reenacting this rare and elite unit .


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:29 am 
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Location: Warrington (UK)
Real Name: Rod Shack
Group: Heeres Inf Bat 561 zbV, The Diggers, Das Reich
Thanks Justin

Nice to see our Irish counterparts are also looking into it. Cheers for the offer - I will gladly take you up on it.

I now know of 4 different countries doing this rare unit: England, Eire, Belgium, US. Cool!!

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http://thediggerslhg.co.uk
http://www.561zbv.co.uk

Das Leben ist wie Krieg. Es gibt viele Schlachten zu gewinnen oder verlieren, sondern immer einen neuen eine warten.


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