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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:44 am 
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And to think it was probably broken up for scrap. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:16 am 
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Frontovik wrote:
And to think it was probably broken up for scrap. :D


not sure how many the germans had given that the BEF only had 100 of them to start.



however this must be the best trophy panzer .... ever.

captured MKV from the Russian civil war , found in Smolensk, but
so good they parked it in front of the reichstag


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:28 am 
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Actually it's a German beutepanzer from WWI, pressed into service in the desperate days before the Final Collapse.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 am 
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No it was war booty from smolensk.
its a mk v

all the ww1 beutepanzers were mk vi

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 15:53 pm 
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Are you saying the Germans brought it back from Smolensk as a trophy?

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 17:05 pm 
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Yes.they had 2 of them. Its all rather documented. On proper history sites and even wikipedia for the lazy.

no evidence either used in battle if berlin.
but theres evidence some other ones used in 1941 in the baltic states.
called " rikardo."

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 19:05 pm 
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Slightly OT but perhaps relivant. The 1941 invasion was hampered by the Russian railway gauge, German trains were the wrong size. To get round this the Germans relaid the track. Now ... Would it not have been more efficient to alter the rolling stock gauge to suit the rails?

That way our BEF hero could have been comfortably transported the its doom when it met the first KVs. Phew, back on topic ...

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 13:25 pm 
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BarnacleBill wrote:
Would it not have been more efficient to alter the rolling stock gauge to suit the rails?...


Thereby hangs a tale....

The original planning for Barbarossa assumed that they would use captured rolling stock and, to be fair, they did capture a lot. However, nowhere near enough to keep their spearheads supplied never mind the whole of the Axis invasion force.

Partly this is due to Soviet rolling stock moving industry to the Urals. An astounding feat of organisation that Joe entrusted to the only Old Bolshevik left in the Politburo - whose name escapes me but you've never heard of him. The important bit is he was also the last man left on the Politburo with the cojones to say no to Joe...

Now, you do get trains where you can change the bogeys between the two gauges as anyone who has taken the train from Warsaw to Minsk can attest but you have to have the wheels and the rolling stock has to be the type that can be adapted and, of course, you need the locomotives. Easier by far to move the rails.

Of course easier is not necessarily easy :wink: This covers it I think.

http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 15:21 pm 
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Russian railway guage was chosen by george washington whistler father of artist ...james whistler.
hows that for pointless trivia?


Was the russian vorosholov?

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 19:41 pm 
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Frontovik wrote:
BarnacleBill wrote:
Would it not have been more efficient to alter the rolling stock gauge to suit the rails?...


Thereby hangs a tale....

The original planning for Barbarossa assumed that they would use captured rolling stock and, to be fair, they did capture a lot. However, nowhere near enough to keep their spearheads supplied never mind the whole of the Axis invasion force.

Partly this is due to Soviet rolling stock moving industry to the Urals. An astounding feat of organisation that Joe entrusted to the only Old Bolshevik left in the Politburo - whose name escapes me but you've never heard of him. The important bit is he was also the last man left on the Politburo with the cojones to say no to Joe...

Now, you do get trains where you can change the bogeys between the two gauges as anyone who has taken the train from Warsaw to Minsk can attest but you have to have the wheels and the rolling stock has to be the type that can be adapted and, of course, you need the locomotives. Easier by far to move the rails.

Of course easier is not necessarily easy :wink: This covers it I think.

http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html


Excellent answer, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 15:10 pm 
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Genossen,
An article in Classic Military Vehicles has a piece on British beutepanzer mostly A9s and A10s from France 1940 I believe, not really up on inferior Imperialistic Battle technic.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:41 am 
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lordduvet wrote:


Was the russian vorosholov?


Sorry, just noticed this.

No, I looked him up after and it was Mikoyan.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 14:40 pm 
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Attachment:
Sturmartillerie.jpg

The donor vehicle is?
For the real enthusiasts among us, the gun is?
My vote is the 15 cm SiG.


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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 19:46 pm 
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BrianB wrote:
Attachment:
Sturmartillerie.jpg

The donor vehicle is?
For the real enthusiasts among us, the gun is?
My vote is the 15 cm SiG.



Mk vi light tank with a 10.5cm

When the BEF abandoned most of its equipment during the withdrawal from Dunkirk, it left behind lots of vehicles and weaponry that the German Army was able to repair and reuse. Amongst the list of equipment that was utilised by its new owners was a number of Vickers Light Tank Mk VI.

The tanks were not much use to the Germans as tanks, but they were tracked vehicles and their chassis did have potential to be converted into self-propelled guns. A certain Hauptmann Alfred Becker of 227 Infanterie-Division saw that potential, and during late 1940 and early 1941 he and his men converted 34 Vickers Light Tank Mk IVs into self-propelled guns and support vehicles.

Hauptmann Becker and his men built:
•Twelve x 10.5cm leFH 16 auf Geschutzwagen auf Fahrgestell Mk VI 736 (e)
•Six x 15cm leFH 13 auf Geschutzwagen auf Fahrgestell Mk VI 736 (e)
but as far as I know there are no pics of 15cm ones though
•Twelve x Mk VI Munitionspanzer + a LOT of bren carrier munitionspanzers

These converted vehicles served with 15 Batterie, Artillerie-Regiment 227 (part of 227 Infanterie-Division) on the Eastern Front until 1942.

both the 10.5cm and 15cm indicate that they were weapons first used during the First World War

227 infantry division also had some dutch armoured cars that becker utilised during the invaision of Holland.

here's beckers wiki page, he made most the german army's improvised armoured vehicles of WW2
and was awarded the Knight’s Cross of the War Merit Cross with Swords

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Becker

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 23:38 pm 
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15 cm s.FH 13/1 (Sf.) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper. 15 cm s.FH 13/1 (Sf.) auf.

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 Post subject: Re: Trophy Panzer
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:47 am 
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I notice it has a land anchor... I think it would need it!

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