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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 14:15 pm 
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Real Name: rob
I recently bought a nice German WW1 scope but it was mounted on this unusual mount,which appears to be a '30s Griffin & Howe with windage adjuster. The company name has been machined out and the mount has, what appears to be, a rifle serial number stamped on it both at the bottom part and top. It appears similar but different from the mount on page 424 in The German Sniper 1914 - 1945. To me it just seemed a strange effort to machine the company name out but then maybe a German armorer wouldn't think it good to leave a sign from New York on it? What's the opinion of the experts? Could it be real? The dealer I bought it off had no idea what it was. When holding it against a relic K98 without woodwork, it fits perfectly.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 17:01 pm 
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Real Name: Ted Harte
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a lot but not all WW1 german snipers were pressed into service hunting rifles. This style of mount can still be purchased to this day to fit mauser actions. Apel for instance being one such company. they fact that it has been stamped with the rifles serial number would point to it being issued at some point.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 18:23 pm 
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First question is, does the base mount fit against the receiver of a K98?

Take a look at the scope, does it have rings around it from this mount, or any from a previous mount? German scopes were usually soft soldered into place from memory to stop them slipping in the rings.

Even in WW1, German hunting and military rifles had variations of the same mount types (usually claw mounts), as you say this is a Griffin and Howe type mount. Definately would not be standard for WW2 as all sniper rifles were re-worked G98's and new K98's converted in factory, all with the same types of mounts.

I'd put this down to be an inter-war or even post WW2 mounting by a civvy gun smith. As to why the original makers mark has been milled out and a rifle S/N stamped in place, who knows?






Paul.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 19:59 pm 
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Real Name: rob
Thanks for your replies so far. The base mount fitted snug against the reciever of a relic k98 with the scope rings exactly in the middle so the scope would be over the barrel so to speak. The scope that came with it wasn't soldered in although the rings do look like they have had a scope soldered in it at one stage.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 15:48 pm 
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Any more opinions? It can't be normal for aN interwar mount to be stripped of it's evidence of American heritage and stamped up with a rifle number?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 16:12 pm 
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But it certainly doesn't mean it was used by German forces. I've never seen evidence of such a mount when there were many standardised plentiful mounts.

Could be post war for a re-arming country? Lots of countries bought surplus post both world wars. Or as I said previous, a civvy street mount job from surplus stock.







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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 16:25 pm 
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I know what you are saying and obviously I would like it to be the genuine article but then you have to admit that the Germans did throw anything available into the war effort, including commercial scopes, mounts, sporting rifles etc etc as the normal turrets, ssr, lsr, claws etc weren't always available. Evidence of this is in the affore mentioned book


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 17:36 pm 
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The Germans had several mount systems yes, with slight variations (with regards to single and double claw mounts at least to accommodate different scopes and eye reliefs). Mounts were made either in factory or shipped in from approved manufacturers, nothing was "thrown in or together", everything was approved, even late in the war. So it's fairly unlikely in my opinion that this was an actual German military used mount.

The mount is similar to the one on Page 424 of Senich's book, but that mount appears to have been made by the Mauser-Werke factory, a possible prototype, not a commercial mount. Plus every converted factory rifle mount was proof marked.



EDIT:
Upon further research, the mount you have is an early Griffin & Howe, the patent date where the milled ring is should be October 31st 1931.

It appears as though G&H manufactured alot of body pads post WW2 for the commercial market for all sorts of rifles including the K98, and the mount base with rings could slide onto any one and collimate the scope to the bore with different length rings and suit any scope with different diameter rings too. They are still making them today.

The scope you have has been paired with that particular type of mount due to its lateral adjustment capability, eliminated in later mounts as American scopes started to be produced with their own internal windage adjustment.






Paul.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 18:59 pm 
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Real Name: rob
Hi Paul,

Thanks for that, very kind you have looked it all up for me. Bit of a bummer but nothing ventured, nothing gained and I still have a nice Voigtlander scope out of it.

Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 19:03 pm 
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Real Name: rob
Actually, together with this I got a Henzoldt Wetzlar Ziel Dailyt 4x, 22mm tube, does anyone know what sort of mounts were used for these thin tubes?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 19:05 pm 
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Hi Rob,

Indeed nothing ventured, in itself the G&H mount is collectable on its own. But yes, the scope is most definitely the prize :D






Paul.


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