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 Post subject: Maxim 1910 Prices
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:08 am 
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Forgive the intrusion, but how much would an M1910 Maxim, Ribbed Jacket, no Tractor Filler cap, with Sokolov Mount and Shield, complete with Tansit case for mount and 2 Ammo cans cost on the open Market? The date on the Feed Cover is obscured, so I can't give a date.
Photos are available....
Spasiba guys
Ian H

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 am 
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Ian

Ryton Arms sell the more common version with the snow cap for £395.00.

Being the earlier version and with the extra kit it could perhaps attract a premium of £50.00 to £100.00. The market is however flooded and there are very few collectors like me who would even know or care about the difference.

Its also a pitty that they obiterated the date of manufactire during the post war rebuild. If you can give us the serial number I will try and work out a date.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:30 am 
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Cheers -
I'll speak to the guy who has it & get back to you.....

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 14:15 pm 
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Ok, serial no; M3 389. there are 2 different 3s in the serial - the first is normal, the other has a straight top bar

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 14:23 pm 
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Oggy wrote:
Ok, serial no; M3 389. there are 2 different 3s in the serial - the first is normal, the other has a straight top bar


In that case I'd say the first is actually the Cyrillic letter for 'Z' and the second is the number 3.

If there is an 'SA' in a square cartouche (usually stamped on the top plate) this is a Finnish capture and the feed will have been altered to accept metal link belts.

Of course it might well have been altered as part of the post war rebuild anyway!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 17:33 pm 
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The owner is lucky to have a shield if it is an ex-Finnish Gun.

The Finnish army dispensed with their shields due to the additional weight penalty. They also removed the small leaf spring and pin which holds the shield against the water jacket when fitted. I assume it is an original shield and not one of the repro's offered by IMA in the States? Also the spring is present without which the shield would flop about?

The Finnish Guns are actually more interesting because there were guns in the batch from all periods of manufacture. They were also not subject to post-war russian rebuilds which included fitting the late pattern of feed block.

I will check in my book tonight but if it has a letter at the front you can only give a period of manufacture rather than a year. If there is any uncertainty, what number does the deact Certificate give? The owner unfortunately probably gave a lot more for this gun than the current market price.

There is also a Yahoo chat group deicated to the 1910 Maxim but it only seems to be me and Bob Naess who know much about the subject.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 20:10 pm 
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Frontovik wrote:
Oggy wrote:
Ok, serial no; M3 389. there are 2 different 3s in the serial - the first is normal, the other has a straight top bar


In that case I'd say the first is actually the Cyrillic letter for 'Z' and the second is the number 3.

If there is an 'SA' in a square cartouche (usually stamped on the top plate) this is a Finnish capture and the feed will have been altered to accept metal link belts.

Of course it might well have been altered as part of the post war rebuild anyway!

There is a circle with what looks like a cube in isometric view stamped on the feed cover, no SA tho.

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 20:12 pm 
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REME 245 wrote:
The owner is lucky to have a shield if it is an ex-Finnish Gun.

The Finnish army dispensed with their shields due to the additional weight penalty. They also removed the small leaf spring and pin which holds the shield against the water jacket when fitted. I assume it is an original shield and not one of the repro's offered by IMA in the States? Also the spring is present without which the shield would flop about?

The Finnish Guns are actually more interesting because there were guns in the batch from all periods of manufacture. They were also not subject to post-war russian rebuilds which included fitting the late pattern of feed block.

I will check in my book tonight but if it has a letter at the front you can only give a period of manufacture rather than a year. If there is any uncertainty, what number does the deact Certificate give? The owner unfortunately probably gave a lot more for this gun than the current market price.

There is also a Yahoo chat group deicated to the 1910 Maxim but it only seems to be me and Bob Naess who know much about the subject.

It is original - it even has a couple of gouges in it!

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 12:53 pm 
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If there are two letters infront of the number all you can say is that the gun was manufactured between 1938 to 1941 when the snow cap gun was introduced.

The post-war rebuilds were pretty crude and I have seen serveral guns which have had their marking oblitered in the process.

There are three known arsenal marks found on Russian Maxims. These are:-
1. Star and Arrow contained in a Circle.
2. Hexagon and Arrow in a Circle.
3. Truncated Triangle.

Your symbol sounds like number 2 but unfortunately, the only currently identifed mark is number 1 for the Tula Arsenal. If anyone can identifie the other two marks I would be interested. In theroy they should be Kovrov and Ishevsk Arsenals but the marks do not match any known symbols.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 14:04 pm 
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...1941 when the snow cap gun was introduced.


Really, I'd been told it was 1944. This could mean us being able to deploy our Maxin at earlier war events.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 14:15 pm 
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This is getting interesting, thanks a lot guys, must get photos up....

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 17:39 pm 
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Frontovik

To be fair to your source it was probably 1944 before they appeared in large enough numbers to be commonly noticed in photographs.

Production at the start of the war was curtailed due to the introduction of the unsucessful DS Machine Gun. As a result according to Bolotin production in 1941 was only 9,691 followed by 55,258 in 1942. The estimated figure for 1944 was 270,000. In total it is believed the Russians manufactured something like 600,000 Maxim Guns.

Unfortunately there is very little source material on Russians Maxims so quite when the snow cap version was introduced is open to question. Dolf Goldsmith says 1943. I also have a Russian langue magazine on the Maxim which shows two pictures and states 1941 as part of the description. Unfortunately not speaking Russian I cannot read the full sentence, but I assume the date to be when this pattern was introduced.
Certainly no earlier. Obviously it would have taken time for these guns to reach the front line in any quanity.

If we have a Russian speaker I will try and scan in the picture next week.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 20:03 pm 
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My 1943 dated maxim has a snow cap. Would they have have retro-fitted these?

Image

That's the gun, thought I had an image of the receiver but can't find it.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 23:28 pm 
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Shouldn't be a problem if they were introduced in 1941?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 17:42 pm 
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Speaking to Ryton last week I understand that they are now selling their earlier guns without the Snow Caps for £450.00.

They have just imported a new batch of 130 guns of varying patterns.

I purchased an interesting mount which had a row of large diameter holes drilled down both side rails. This was presumably an experiment to save weight. If anyone has a picture of one of these in service I would be interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 21:31 pm 
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I've seen that mount somewhere.... hmmm will drag the books for you.

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