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Do you think I can get away with it?
Yes 73%  73%  [ 8 ]
No 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Rot in hell you farb 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only if the MG is placed far from the audiences 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 11
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 14:42 pm 
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Real Name: Martin
Group: Battlefront Living History Group
WARNING: Hardcore reenactors, do not read this. It will give you a brain aneurysm, as I will discuss sacrificing accuracy and detail for the sake of the show.






Rather recently I was bothered by the lack of firepower my British re-enactment group has, however a Vickers (a fluted jacket at that) is way out of my price range (Reminder: I'm not in Britain, we're talking live MGs here). So I've decided to make a stand-in for battles.

I've gotten my hands on a 1939 Maxim 1910/30. The major external differences between it and a Vickers are the muzzle (easily replaced), the sights and the overall hue of green. Given that it's meant to be sticking out of a bunker, I think I can get away with using the Maxim with some nonpermanent modifications.

My plan is to change out the muzzle with a Vickers style one, change the sights for Vickers sights and surround it with Vickers ammo boxes/belts.

7.62x54r Blanks are also somewhat cheaper then .303, as an added bonus.

Now, here's the problems I'm encountering. I've found a few sources for .303 cloth belts in the UK, but the sellers are refusing to ship them outside of the UK. Can I get a confirmation weather this is a legit legal restriction, or if they are just being lazy? I mean, it's literally a few yards of cloth with holes in it.

I'm also looking for a Vickers tripod. If anyone could point me in the direction of a reliable source, I'd appreciate it.

Here's a picture in it's true form:
Image

I'm still digging all the Cosmoline out and taking notes of all the various markings. It is a real beauty, if there's any Russian collectors interested, I can post a thread about it in the Soviet weapons sub-forum.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 14:47 pm 
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Its likely that an ammunition belt would be included in Military Open Government Export Licence restrictions.
Sankey Hitches and land Rovers are


https://www.gov.uk/military-goods-ogels

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 15:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:55 pm
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Location: Surrey
Real Name: Dan
MartinS wrote:

Now, here's the problems I'm encountering. I've found a few sources for .303 cloth belts in the UK, but the sellers are refusing to ship them outside of the UK. Can I get a confirmation weather this is a legit legal restriction, or if they are just being lazy? I mean, it's literally a few yards of cloth with holes in it.
.


No legal restriction but I bet it depends on your location. I have a couple of spare Vickers cloth belts, all WW2 dated, where do you want them posted ? Also have one Maxim cloth belt but it's a bit more pricey, drop me a PM.

Quick pic of my Maxim..
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 19:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:33 pm
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Location: Swindon
Real Name: Richard Fisher
Group: Vickers MG Collection & Research Association
You'll get away with it - many do!

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Vickers MG Collection & Research Association, a not-for-profit company limited by guarantee, incorporated in England (Registered Number: 07855202)
http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 22:44 pm 
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Mate of mine in Oz made one from scratch. Looks ok from a distance if you squint:-)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 23:06 pm 
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Other than the crimes against the Glorious Soviet Union (the charge sheet is being typed up as we speak!)...

Cloth belt? Do you mean a Vickers one? It won't work AFAIK.

To be honest, the Maxim one won't work either - post war these were converted to use the steel belts of the SG43 - unless you can find the parts to unconvert it (good luck with that)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:41 am 
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If it's a muzzle sticking out of a bunker, would you even see the belt or tripod?

The green looks OK as it is - at least on my monitor.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 13:00 pm 
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Real Name: Andy
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Soviet ordnance "salamander green" is quite different to any British green I've seen, but then again with the muzzle flash you won't see it anyway.

They do actually sound different when they are firing too...

Vickers: http://youtu.be/hPv_f_aSyP4
Maxim: http://youtu.be/pIpQ3JvcbV8

Probably most likely to do with the difference between the .303 and 7.62x54R round, but the Maxim does have a faster cyclical rof.

If you are only going to stick it out of a weapon slit, why not use a gas gun? Even cheaper :)

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 13:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:41 pm
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Real Name: Martin
Group: Battlefront Living History Group
According to some US fellows who live fire, cloth belts work with the upgraded feed block, but steel dont work with the original type. Apparently a maxim will feed out of just about any belt that you an ram the round into , when using the upgraded feed block.

I'm not home so I cant check, but I think mine was upgraded with a new block in 46, if i understood the logbook correctly.

The .303 belts would be for decoration, to set the scene so to speak.

As to why not get a gas gun, between the option for a live MG and a gas gun, I'll take the histotical goodie (not to mention it will appreciate in value).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 14:28 pm 
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Real Name: Andy
Group: Za Oberonyu! 13th GRD and WPFG
Actually, I've read somewhere earlier that there are only two types of feed blocks - early ones are cloth only, late war or postwar they were all swapped to a universal cloth/metal one.

So yes, it should work.

The cloth belts (especially after all these years) don't feed as well as a the SG43 type (because they stretch after a time and don't grip the rounds properly). I'd stick with the metal belt if you want function over form (as any good Soviet would want!) and they are much easier/cheaper to get as well.

I'll have a look at home later, if you want a Vickers belt, I might well have one or two knocking around spare. I've got a couple of cloth Maxim belts, but you can't have those - those are for my Naval Infantry getup :D

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"I saw cities in Europe that were practically untouched by the war, countries that capitulated to the more powerful enemies even before war was declared, but we are not like that. Our grandfathers, our fathers, our older generation, our great leaders, fought here for each building, for each street." - First Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on the 70th anniversary of victory at Stalingrad


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 18:54 pm 
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Real Name: Martin
Group: Battlefront Living History Group
Here's a video of one of the BFAs being tested. The rate of fire is a bit on the high end I think, I'll probably use a BFA with a larger hole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KLTrVt-Xy8


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:51 am 
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Real Name: Martin
Group: Battlefront Living History Group
I've gotten my hands on a cloth belt, taking it down to our training ground next weekend to see how it feeds.

I've learned the hard way that a Brass .303 feed block won't fit in a Maxim, so that's one shiny detail that'll be missing. I've got CAD templates for a tripod all ready, now I just need to get my hands on measurements for some Vickers ammo boxes, so I can replicate those too.

I don't want to stay worrying about scratching the paint on original boxes.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:55 am 
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Real Name: Dan
Hi Martin, how did you get on ? any pics ?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 17:46 pm 
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MartinS wrote:
I've gotten my hands on a cloth belt, taking it down to our training ground next weekend to see how it feeds.

I've learned the hard way that a Brass .303 feed block won't fit in a Maxim, so that's one shiny detail that'll be missing. I've got CAD templates for a tripod all ready, now I just need to get my hands on measurements for some Vickers ammo boxes, so I can replicate those too.

I don't want to stay worrying about scratching the paint on original boxes.


This site should interest you:-

http://www.vickersmachinegun.org.uk/acc-ammunition.htm

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:20 am 
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Real Name: Martin
Group: Battlefront Living History Group
Going along quite well, I've had a feed block break, turned out to be a fault in the metallurgy, so I spent quite a while getting it repaired.

Runs quite smoothly now, for anyone interested he's a few things I learned that I couldn't find online;

1: Water will leak from everywhere, this is normal.
2: Maxim and Vickers tripods are mostly interchangeable, HOWEVER, you need to use certain mounting pins with certain combinations of gun/mount.
3: The water gets hot really really quickly.

First real use in a show will be on the 16th of October, can't wait. Sadly only photo I have is this from a training session:
Attachment:
maxim.jpg


Seen on the lower right of the photo. Still looking for an original tripod once funds permit, but dang are they hard to find.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:46 am 
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Location: MERSEYSIDE
Real Name: Paul Dutton
Looks good, wouldn't like that chasing me across the battlefield!
I bought a movie prop Vickers early in the year, scratch built with some genuine parts.
All hollow inside making it ripe for gas fire conversion!
Original trigger, grips, sight, feed block, water plugs and flash hider.
Looking for tripod to mount it too as it was originally vehicle mounted I'm told.
How easy was the tripod to manufacture??


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