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 Post subject: Straight Bren magazines
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 20:02 pm 
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Seen a photo of ladies of Inglis with MkII Brens fresh off the production line, but with short, straight magazines in the top of the actions.
Not long and straight like LMG but more like a BAR magazine. In fact, more like the original short vz 26 box magazine, come to that.
Anyone any idea what these would be?
Some form of 'test' magazine?
Sorry, can't reproduce the pic here, but thought you Bren experts might know.

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Colour Sgt. Bourne: "Sir, sentries report the Zulus have gone. All of them. It's a miracle!"
Lt. Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer-Henry point-four-five calibre miracle."
Sgt. Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it."
Speculation is the secret vice of every history buff and...is unavoidable when passing judgements - Stephen E Ambrose
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 20:08 pm 
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Real Name: boris bagbogbigban
7.92 mm for china

the .303 is a rimmed round that creates the curved mag


Image
Image


its mentioned on this thread viewtopic.php?f=121&t=5604&start=224

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 20:21 pm 
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Knew if I asked on here I would soon be enlightened.
Thank you.
Just goes to show, you're never too old to learn something new!

_________________
Colour Sgt. Bourne: "Sir, sentries report the Zulus have gone. All of them. It's a miracle!"
Lt. Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer-Henry point-four-five calibre miracle."
Sgt. Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it."
Speculation is the secret vice of every history buff and...is unavoidable when passing judgements - Stephen E Ambrose
'It was noticeable that spirits were of the highest order whenever a mess tin of tea was being heated up' - S/Sgt Victor Miller, Glider Pilot Regiment.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 20:49 pm 
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The mag is exactly the same as the ZB26 mag and are interchangeable. They were used with the Chinese 7.92 Bren MkI, the resistence Brens and the post war sterile Brens.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 21:16 pm 
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The L4 series of post war brens had straight magazines as they were calibrated to 7.62. The early ones were made from Mk2's and Mk3's with Mk1 butts. They were a bit of a mongrel. Occasionally you will find one made from Mk1 parts.

The following is copied from 'wiki'

'A conversion of the Bren to 7.62mm NATO from 1958. Indian Army variants may be new-build, not conversions. L4 Brens can easily be identified by their different magazine. The British-issue L4 magazine is of 30-round capacity and has a slight curve. The L4 magazine was interchangeable with the L1A1 SLR magazine, so the L4 Bren also can be seen fitted with straight 20-round magazines from the SLR or with the straight 30-round magazine from the Australian L2A1 or Canadian C2A1 heavy-barrel SLR. The flash suppressor was changed from the cone type of .303 variants to a slotted type similar in appearance to that used on the SLR and L7 GPMG. All L4s are chambered for 7.62×51mm NATO rimless ammunition.'

Below is a photo of an L4 with the 30-round L2A1

Hope this helps.

Steve.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 21:58 pm 
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m3bobby - but presumably the box mags didn't take .303 and weren't compatible with .303 Brens, right?
SgtH - yeah, the LMG I was conversant with, the mag being 'long', but the short ones were new to me. But I'm wiser now.
Thanks again.

_________________
Colour Sgt. Bourne: "Sir, sentries report the Zulus have gone. All of them. It's a miracle!"
Lt. Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer-Henry point-four-five calibre miracle."
Sgt. Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it."
Speculation is the secret vice of every history buff and...is unavoidable when passing judgements - Stephen E Ambrose
'It was noticeable that spirits were of the highest order whenever a mess tin of tea was being heated up' - S/Sgt Victor Miller, Glider Pilot Regiment.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 22:12 pm 
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no because the .303 is a rimmed round and the 7.92 (or 7.62) isn't.


(please you may detect a small amount of sarcasm)
when you put the little bullets alongside each other in a parallel sort of say the 7.92 go in a straight line whilst the .303 make a curve.

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If you have the last word and no one heard it - Did it happen? https://youtu.be/mQZmCJUSC6g


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 22:43 pm 
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.303 with rim. 7.62 without.


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_________________
Radio Announcer: So you're in the Royal Artillery? What song are you requesting?
Gunner: Anything...as long as its LOUD!!!!!

Part-time Actor, sometime singer and dancer.

'All The Worlds A Stage And We Are............The Ones Who Forget Their Lines.' ......Anon

'We're not lost.......We're just temporarily disorientated.' ......Sgt H Backhurst

Live out the lives of your fantasies........Your brightest dreams....Your darkest nightmares.

53rd Welsh Division, Royal Artillery Artificer-Sergeant. (Cobbler/Armourer)
RAOC Artificer-Sergeant (Cobbler/Armourer)
Civilian Cobbler. (Work in progress)
9th Para. (Work in progress)
Researching 'Faversham 1939-1945. Home Guard KT9'


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 13:51 pm 
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I was always brought up to believe there's no such thing as silly questions...

Aware of difference between calibres and rimmed/rimless. Thanks.
Merely asking as a little clarification of what M3bobby said re: resistance, etc, Brens. Presumably only good for resistance, etc, Brens if said Brens weren't standard .303. The different types of magazines were not interchangeable between calibres.
As I said at the start, I was previously unaware of straight magazines for Bren guns - I like to be clear on my facts, rather than to make assumptions.
Thanks.

_________________
Colour Sgt. Bourne: "Sir, sentries report the Zulus have gone. All of them. It's a miracle!"
Lt. Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer-Henry point-four-five calibre miracle."
Sgt. Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it."
Speculation is the secret vice of every history buff and...is unavoidable when passing judgements - Stephen E Ambrose
'It was noticeable that spirits were of the highest order whenever a mess tin of tea was being heated up' - S/Sgt Victor Miller, Glider Pilot Regiment.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 0:05 am 
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The mags are different sizes and physically won't fit the other gun. The 7.92mm mag is narrow and long compared to the short and fat .303 mag so the mag well is machined to suit. The mag boxes are also different to accommodate this. The resistence 7.92mm gun also had a red rectangle on the side with.....you guessed it, 7.92 in black.

Going back to Sgt H Backhurst post, the L4A1, A2, A4 were based upon the Mk3, the L4A3 and A5 were based upon the Mk2. They certainly weren't mungrels, they were fully FTR'd guns and didn't have Mk1 butts (They were obsolescent from 1944), there was a L4 conversion of the Mk1 known as the L4A7 but these were for the Greeks and they never went into production.

The confusion may lie in the South African 7.62mm conversion which are commonly sold as L4s in the UK. These were converted from all marks of Bren and are not up to the same standard as a UK L4 conversion.

The photo shows a Ex Falkland Island Defence Force L4A2 converted to L4A4 with a L4A1 magazine. The L2A1 mag is a dead straight Aussie mag.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:07 am 
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Good info, thanks, appreciate it.

_________________
Colour Sgt. Bourne: "Sir, sentries report the Zulus have gone. All of them. It's a miracle!"
Lt. Chard: "If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer-Henry point-four-five calibre miracle."
Sgt. Bourne: "And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it."
Speculation is the secret vice of every history buff and...is unavoidable when passing judgements - Stephen E Ambrose
'It was noticeable that spirits were of the highest order whenever a mess tin of tea was being heated up' - S/Sgt Victor Miller, Glider Pilot Regiment.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 17:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 14:33 pm
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Location: Faversham, Kent
Real Name: Steve
Group: 53rd Welsh. AFRA. RACP. TATA
m3bobby wrote:
The mags are different sizes and physically won't fit the other gun. The 7.92mm mag is narrow and long compared to the short and fat .303 mag so the mag well is machined to suit. The mag boxes are also different to accommodate this. The resistence 7.92mm gun also had a red rectangle on the side with.....you guessed it, 7.92 in black.

Going back to Sgt H Backhurst post, the L4A1, A2, A4 were based upon the Mk3, the L4A3 and A5 were based upon the Mk2. They certainly weren't mungrels, they were fully FTR'd guns and didn't have Mk1 butts (They were obsolescent from 1944), there was a L4 conversion of the Mk1 known as the L4A7 but these were for the Greeks and they never went into production.

The confusion may lie in the South African 7.62mm conversion which are commonly sold as L4s in the UK. These were converted from all marks of Bren and are not up to the same standard as a UK L4 conversion.

The photo shows a Ex Falkland Island Defence Force L4A2 converted to L4A4 with a L4A1 magazine. The L2A1 mag is a dead straight Aussie mag.


Thank you, will update my records

_________________
Radio Announcer: So you're in the Royal Artillery? What song are you requesting?
Gunner: Anything...as long as its LOUD!!!!!

Part-time Actor, sometime singer and dancer.

'All The Worlds A Stage And We Are............The Ones Who Forget Their Lines.' ......Anon

'We're not lost.......We're just temporarily disorientated.' ......Sgt H Backhurst

Live out the lives of your fantasies........Your brightest dreams....Your darkest nightmares.

53rd Welsh Division, Royal Artillery Artificer-Sergeant. (Cobbler/Armourer)
RAOC Artificer-Sergeant (Cobbler/Armourer)
Civilian Cobbler. (Work in progress)
9th Para. (Work in progress)
Researching 'Faversham 1939-1945. Home Guard KT9'


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 18:28 pm 
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L4A3 and L4A4, both in my collection.

The photo posted earlier is a scarcs L4A2/4 also in my collection.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 18:32 pm 
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7.92mm Bren Mk1


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