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 Post subject: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 18:31 pm 
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Reading up on Brenguns recently I wondered why Mk 1 Brenguns were still being made as late as 1944 or even later, even after the introduction of the Mk 2 in 1941. I always thought that a earlier Mk would finish before the next Mk started in production. What's the latest date the Mk 1 Brengun was made?


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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:03 am 
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You will be refering to the Mk1* which had quite a number of machining sequences deleted from the manufacturing process to simplify and speed up manufacture.
I don't know the exact answer but it is likely that it was simply easier to keep churning them out in certain factories than to stop production and change over all the tooling, measuring gauges for quality control, etc and also the loss of production whilst doing so, and allow other factories to move into producing the Mk2.
The Bren Gun Saga book [I had once but sold] will likely have an answer, but it is out of print, well worth finding though!


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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 16:16 pm 
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30thcammo wrote:
What's the latest date the Mk 1 Brengun was made?

Inglis stopped making them circa mid-1943, Enfield stopped making them circa mid-1944 and Lithgow stopped making them at the cessation of hostilities in 1945. The MkII was intended to supplement supplies of the MkI rather than replace it per se. By mid-1944, Inglis was supplying enough MkII's to allow Enfield to switch over to production of the MkIII and for the Monotype Scheme (UK made MkII's) to end.

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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 23:35 pm 
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The last Enfield MkI was made in about July 1944 after approx. 140,000 Mk1 and 1* guns had been produced.

The Last Inglis MkIm was made in approx. March 43 after 87,500 Mk1 and Mk1m guns

The Last Lithgow MkI was produced on 13 Aug 1945 after 17,428 guns. (Excluding trials guns)

Both Inglis and Monotype stopped producing the Mk2 at about the same time in early 1945, late 44 and early 45 Monotype guns had the MkII designation changed to Mk2, Inglis carried on until the end with the MkII designation.

The last Mk3 was made in early 1961 after the intro of the L4. 65,000 Mk3 guns were made of which at least 22,000 were converted to L4 7.62mm guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 20:37 pm 
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m3bobby wrote:
Both Inglis and Monotype stopped producing the Mk2 at about the same time in early 1945

Aha. Interesting. Respectively earlier and later than I thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 20:16 pm 
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Intresting information. Would a early Mk1 differ to a late war Mk1 ie different fixtures and features or would they be identical.
Years ago i could have bought the Brengun Saga book but looking at the current price i think i will give that one a miss, are there any other Bren books that are a good buy, i was thinking about getting the Skenneton Bren gun book, any good?


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 Post subject: Re: Brengun Mk question
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 22:14 pm 
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The original Double Dovetail Bren of 1937 to 40 had a lot more machining and detail than the later Mk1. After the fall of France and the BEF left most of it's weapons on the beaches. The UK needed replacement arms fast and so a programme of simplification was introduced. This resulted in 2 ideas, a Bren Pattern A and B. Pattern A could be could be introduced quite quickly and involved the omitting of certain machining operations. Unfortunately some of these omitted operations and features were required for the jigs of other operations and so alternative methods had to be designed. This meant that the change from Bren Mk1 to Pattern A took some time and production couldn't be halted. As a result there were 5 intermediate type guns between the Mk1 and Mk1 pattern A making 7 Enfield made versions.

The pattern B went on to be the Mk2 gun and so Enfield made the Mk1 Ptn A along side Monotype with the Mk2 (Ptn B).


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