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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 23:16 pm 
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peregrinvs wrote:
m3bobby wrote:
It may feature in a book on the Bren in the future if it goes to press.


Would that be the Peter Laidler book? Fingers crossed it sees the light of day eventually.

Beautiful Brens BTW. All being well I shall be getting a 1943 Lithgow MkI 'upgraded' next week.

Then that only leaves a MkIII and an L4 to get. Easy-peasy... :lol:

Cheers,
Mark


Correct, Peter just needs to get it to print. Trouble is, the Bren gun saga is currently the Bren Bible (Dispite having many errors) and he's unsure if theres the market for a second bible. If you want a MkIII it would be a nice find, most of the MkIII marked guns are now Indian re-numbered (As mine is), converted to L4 spec or converted to South African 7.62mm. I'm going to look out for a SA 7.62mm version with original number and marked MkIII and get it returned back to Mk3 standard by a dealer. I've also got a 1947 Mk3 which is tidy and my L4A2 is also in good nik.

My 1938 Mk1 used to be a semi auto conversion from the pre Hungerford era but its now back to being a selectable deac! Its quite intresting how they were made semi-auto only. Also, my Boys AT rifle was a smooth bored gun prior to being deactivated but I've no idea of the history behind it.

The Lithgow guns I think are the most underated of Brens considering they were the smallest of manufacturers. Many people dont like the mk1/2 hybrid look but I've found from research that the mk2 type barrel is correct from about 1943, so is very original.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 23:44 pm 
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I'd gladly shell out for an L4, just for a Falklands impression

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:13 am 
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Oggy wrote:
I'd gladly shell out for an L4, just for a Falklands impression


I saw one at Detling this year: a cool £1,100 if memory serves.

I've read elsewhere that the bulk of the ex-British army L4's are being scrapped rather than sold on, so they'll probably always be rare and pricey. :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Unfortunatly its true,

The government have had a change in policy and now scrap surplus arms. I know most of the recent L4s have been going to Donnington for destruction. Crying shame, as pointed out on another forum, the tax payer paid for these items in the first place, they could have had a second lfe in a collection as a deac and made the goverment a fortune, thus keeping our taxes down.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 14:13 pm 
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Ah well, looks like a kidney and a lung up for sale then...

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 20:30 pm 
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m3bobby wrote:
The Lithgow guns I think are the most underated of Brens considering they were the smallest of manufacturers.


In terms of production totals, the Lithgow Brens are scarce guns. Only just over 17,000 were made which makes them numerically rarer than MkIII's alone. Total Lithgow production is a small fraction of the total Enfield, Monotype and Inglis production.

But through a quirk of fate a large number were imported for the UK deact market circa 10-15 years ago making them an 'entry level' Bren for UK collectors. I believe most of those left in Australia have since been scrapped after a change in policy by the Australian government. (I've read some heartbreaking tales of the rare and valuable stuff that's been sent to the smelter there)

So if you have a Lithgow Bren, cherish it.

Mark

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 20:42 pm 
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m3bobby wrote:
the tax payer paid for these items in the first place, they could have had a second lfe in a collection as a deac and made the goverment a fortune, thus keeping our taxes down.


I doubt the thought even entered their heads... :x

I'm guessing its something to do with international agreements on the sales of surplus small arms. In terms of keeping AK47's out of unstable parts of Africa etc. that's no bad thing. But in practice it seems to be resulting in considerable 'collateral damage' to weapons of historical and / or collectible interest that have little or no usefulness on a modern battlefield.

Sadly your average politician doesn't think much further than 'Guns are evil and to destroy them is good'. They certainly don't want to be troubled with any inconvenient facts or details. :roll:

Mark

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 21:18 pm 
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peregrinvs wrote:
m3bobby wrote:
The Lithgow guns I think are the most underated of Brens considering they were the smallest of manufacturers.


In terms of production totals, the Lithgow Brens are scarce guns. Only just over 17,000 were made which makes them numerically rarer than MkIII's alone. Total Lithgow production is a small fraction of the total Enfield, Monotype and Inglis production.

But through a quirk of fate a large number were imported for the UK deact market circa 10-15 years ago making them an 'entry level' Bren for UK collectors. I believe most of those left in Australia have since been scrapped after a change in policy by the Australian government. (I've read some heartbreaking tales of the rare and valuable stuff that's been sent to the smelter there)

So if you have a Lithgow Bren, cherish it.

Mark

Mark, anything automatic is evil down there (not airsoft, even tho it may be dayglo pink)

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 21:46 pm 
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Whilst I can't personally vouch for its accuracy there's some interesting reading on this subject on the 'Maple Leaf Up' Canadian miltary history forum.

For some reason the link doesn't work when I post it in a message so Google "SAF Lithgow Museum", click on the first result and scroll down to post 12.

VERY sad.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 16:33 pm 
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m3bobby wrote:
Correct, Peter just needs to get it to print. Trouble is, the Bren gun saga is currently the Bren Bible (Dispite having many errors) and he's unsure if theres the market for a second bible.


An interesting and very recent post on the milsurps.com forum mentions that:

"Peter Laidler has accessed the whole Bren archive and pictorial library plus their magnificent collection of fully serviceable and operational Bren Guns at the Small Arms School and as a result, has written the whole 'warts an' all story of the the Bren from the first note from Major Oxley, the Military Attache in Prague (where it was undergoing trials with the Hungarian Army) to the last guns being withdrawn from front line service in February 2002. Astonishingly, a further 6 guns were found, oiled up and still in working order in a secure store 2 years ago.

The whole 260,000 word story plus never before seen archive photographs, flow charts and line drawings are in the process of being published by Small Arms Review as we speak".

Hopefully this is correct - I'd certainly buy a copy. 'The Bren Gun Saga' is a very interesting book on the development of the Bren, but it lacks information on ordinary service weapons, 'real world' usage and accessories.

Mark

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


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