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 Post subject: MKI Bren Gun by Enfield
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 13:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 13:39 pm
Posts: 18
Real Name: Kieron Hill
I have just become the proud Dad of
a 1943 MKI Bren Gun by Enfield it was
deactivated by Ryton Arms Ltd on the
22nd January 2009. It has matching
serial numbers to the lower and upper
reciever and overall in good condition.

I am after a transit case if anyone has
one knocking around or knows of a place
I can get hold of one? A few pictures I
hope you enjoy.

Cheers
Kieron


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 19:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 22:20 pm
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Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
Hi,

Just to lapse into trainspotter mode for a moment, you have a MK1m with a MK2 butt. This isn't incorrect in a 'user' sense as armourers had better things to worry about than matching types of parts when getting weapons back into use. I've seen a 1944 picture of a soldier carrying an identical MK1m Bren with a MK2 butt.

Nice clean and tidy example as well.

Mark

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 20:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 13:39 pm
Posts: 18
Real Name: Kieron Hill
Cheers for your comments Mark, so sorry if I
sound like I do not know what I am talking
about...because I dont :D . But can you
tell me how you know its a MK1m?

Thanks
Kieron


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 20:25 pm 
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Real Name: Mark
Group: A humble militaria collector at your service
Kieron Hill wrote:
Cheers for your comments Mark, so sorry if I
sound like I do not know what I am talking
about...because I dont :D . But can you
tell me how you know its a MK1m?

Thanks
Kieron


The main difference is that it lacks a 'dovetail' on the side of the receiver to which it was intended to attach a bracket holding an optical sight. IIRC said feature was deleted circa late 1940.

There's a potted guide to Bren types here:

http://www.thegunner.net/brenrecg.htm

I believe there are other smaller differences as well and I'm sure some better informed Bren enthusiasts will be along soon to illuminate further. :wink:

Mark

PS. I used to own a 1945 Australian MK1m Bren that had a MK2 barrel and bipod. For many years I thought it was a 'hybrid', but eventually discovered that late Australian Brens were made that way.

_________________
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.


Last edited by peregrinvs on Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 16:14 pm
Posts: 1790
Location: Wiltshire
This is the best place for any questions of British machine guns.

http://weaponsonline.proboards76.com/index.cgi?

If your Bren is a Mk1M it will be engraved as such on the receiver.
From memory the M means Canadian prodution which you have already stated it is not.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 17:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:28 am
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Location: Austin, Texas
Real Name: David Gordon
The "M" indicated "modified pattern" in reference to the original Mark I design. But British-made weapons will not have the marking engraved on the side. The Mark I required quite a bit of milling as it had additional features including some redundant safties, the fixed line sight as previously mentioned and many areas which were lightened. The Mark II was a greatly simplified design which didn't cost as much to build and took less time so more could be produced. It required retooling for production but they couldn't outright stop production to cut over to the Mark II pattern. So essentially the modified pattern was a Mark I where they skipped many of the milling steps while using the existing production lines until the Mark II lines were manufacturing at peek rates.

Any other British weapons series would have shown the modified pattern as a Mark I* but adding an * or an M was an additional step and the new requirments said to eliminate production steps. Canadian Inglis weapons added the nomenclature though.

Mixed parts weapons were very common just like seeing Ford and Willys jeeps with mixed branded parts since they were interchangable. Offically the weapons were identified by the receiver markings and not by their features. But most collectors want a pure weapon so it represents how it looked when issued.

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David Gordon
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 20:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 13:39 pm
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Real Name: Kieron Hill
These are the markings on my Bren


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 21:16 pm 
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Location: Austin, Texas
Real Name: David Gordon
Yep, proper markings for a Mark I Bren produced by Enfield. That's what the E and D superimposed over each other represent.

Since you currently have the Mark II pattern butt on the weapon, you can remove the rear clip from the sling. Save it somewhere safe for use if you get a Mark I pattern butt in the future. For the Mark II butt, you connect the sling onto the mounting the same way it is currently connected to the rear clip. Another economic change as the Mark II butt is significantly simpler compared to the Mark I style and you only needed one sling clip per weapon.

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David Gordon
2dOBLI (Texas)


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