WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums

Uniting UK Re-enactors since 2003
 

It is currently Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:26 am

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 21:44 pm 
Moderator
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
Posts: 6893
Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Any evidence of this in British service guys please.....and what was the difference between US and lend lease models ?

regards

LLoyd

_________________
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


Top
 

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username
Offline
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:24 am 
1000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:43 am
Posts: 1172
Location: Hellfire Corner, Kent
2ad82recon wrote:
Any evidence of this in British service guys please.....and what was the difference between US and lend lease models ?

regards

LLoyd


certainly the Victory model Smith & Wesson was used and issued as a 'substitute standard' .38 weapon with British forces; the purchasing of pistols from the Us seemed to go through various phases though..

as my dad was a 6th Welsh TA officer when war broke out in 1939, he had bought in a local secondhand shop a Mk5 Webley .455 for 30bob to carry on his sam browne equipment; he was formally issued, however, with a .38 M&P ("Military & Police") model S&W - which was the pre-war commercially available proper blued finish K frame sized version that the Victory was developed (!?)from; the Victory was what we would call cost engineered with a cheaper phosphate finish, plain unchequered wood grips and a lanyard ring, as well as being marked as calibre ".38-200" on the barrel.
Curiously my dad's was a 'half-way' model as it retained the fine prewar finish and chequered grips, but had the British style lanyard ring and calibre marking; presumably the earliest S&Ws to cross the pond were straightforward commercial models, followed by this type of hybrid, then finally the full 'downmarket' pattern of Victory?


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:32 am 
 Profile

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:37 am
Posts: 88
Location: Alaskan living in exile.
Hello

I'll try and see if I can help out a bit.

From what I have seen with my British version of the S&W M&P .380" Revolver and other British versions I have seen compared to the US version of the same revolver is this:

The majority of British S&W revolvers I have seen have a 5" barrel and are chambered for the .380" Cartridge (aka commercialy as the 38 S&W cartridge, or .380"/200").

Most of the US S&W Revolvers I have seen have a 4" barrel and were chambered for the longer .38 S&W Special Cartridge. My Dad carried one of these revolvers as a gunner in a TBM Avenger with the US Navy.

Also, I have seen British S&W with pre-war commercial checkered grips as well as the plain smooth version. Most of the US Versions I have not seen had the plain smooth grips.

That is based on just what I have seen, I'm sure there are exceptions out there.

The questionsI have concerns the British Version of the S&W Revolver.

1 What is the correct term for this revolver? I'm not certain if the "S&W Victory Model" is officially correct.

2. The cartridge it fired: Is the correct term .380" or .380"/200 (for both the early 200 grain Mk.I cartridge). Or is .38/200 the correct term? Most of the people I have heard here in the US use the term ".38/200". I have a 1943 Canadian made 12 round cartridge box and it is clearly marked ".380 inch".
Thank you
Mark


The


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:50 am 
1000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 16:14 pm
Posts: 1790
Location: Wiltshire
Although we brought a very substantial number of these revolvers the only use I have seen in photographs is with Canadian Troops.

I believe the RAF also used them.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 14:53 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 15:41 pm
Posts: 760
Real Name: Daniel (but Fruitcake will do really)
Group: F.I.R.E, AFRA
I might be able to help - but it's unlikely!

The term S&W Victory is indeed incorrect. That pistol, as has been pointed out uses .38 special rounds which are actually a different size to the (confusingly named) S&W .38/200 round. The standard British barrel length was also an inch longer than that of the Victory - the latter having a 4" barrel, usually.

The correct term for the 'British' pistol, I understand, is "Pistol, Revolver, Smith & Wesson 0.38/200". I've also heard 'No.2' being bandied about but with the only official British WW2 service pistol being the Enfield No.2, I doubt that this name was used for the S&W.

A good many people used the 0.38/200 in the British and Commonwealth armies in WW2. They are often referred to as being a pistol solely for Commonwealth troops - this is not the case. A number of British soldiers also used them, with approximately 400,000 being 'lent' to the British & Commonwealth. Given that a standard infantry division was supposed to have just over 1,000 pistols, this compliment went quite far.

As far as useability goes, there's not much in it between the Enfield, Webley and S&W; personal preference goes much further than any slight advantage one may have over the other.

I've had two of these, the first being fitted with the rarer (but scratchy) patterned grips, the latter with the much better (IMO) smooth wood grips.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 15:10 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 17:32 pm
Posts: 684
Location: Western Nebraska USA
Mine has checkered grips with a blued finish. It has the BNP proofs on it. One on each chamber and one on the barrel. I has Smith & Wesson on the left side, 38 S&W CTG on the right side of the 4" barrel.
It has a oval lanyard ring.

Martin

_________________
http://ww2reenactors.proboards35.com/index.cgi


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 15:20 pm 
2000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:03 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Hereford City
Real Name: Danny Rees
Group: 16 Parachute Field Ambulance
Mine has New Zealand stamps on it.

Danny

_________________
Proud Lifetime Member of the Herefordshire Light Infantry Museum.

Remembering the 36th Regiment of Foot, Herefordshire Militia, Herefordshire Rifle Volunteer Corps, Herefordshire Regiment, Hereford Light Infantry, Light Infantry and the Rifles.

Image


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 18:49 pm 
Moderator
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
Posts: 6893
Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Great info guys...BTW has anyone got Victory Model for sale......please ?

There were a few "mixers" at Malvern.....but i want a proper one.

Regards

Lloyd

_________________
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 22:16 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 15:41 pm
Posts: 760
Real Name: Daniel (but Fruitcake will do really)
Group: F.I.R.E, AFRA
2ad82recon wrote:
Great info guys...BTW has anyone got Victory Model for sale......please ?

There were a few "mixers" at Malvern.....but i want a proper one.

Regards

Lloyd


I've not I'm afraid but I'll keep my eye out.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 22:18 pm 
Moderator
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
Posts: 6893
Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Appreciate it mate..thanks.

Need a butt and cylinder match if at all possible.

Regards

Lloyd

_________________
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 22:05 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 23:17 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Northumberland
Real Name: Paul Thompson
Group: Blyth Battery
I know this topic is about British S&W's so I hope no one minds this question. I have one NZ stamped, it has the remains of red paint on the hammer and rear sight does anyone know if this was standard practice?

_________________
HOME GUARD INSTRUCTION No 51 PART IV Sec. 3.
Defence is final A defended locality must fight to the last man and the last round.

www.blythbattery.org.uk


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 17:03 pm 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 3442
Location: Trying to work out why the GPO has the guns pointing the wrong way
Group: Garrison
Mate has an interesting Colt Liberty with DD and crows foot with 5 1/2 in barrel. His S&W No2 has NZ marks

_________________
"I'm with your lot B Company......B here when they go.....B here when they get back!"

Pte Pat Cleary ANZACS

Heard on VHF gunner net in Borneo in 1960's
US Accent: Unknown call sign this is USAF over North Veitnam clear this frequencey we're fighting a war here
UK Accent: USAF funnily enough so are we.....but we're winning ours!


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 21:43 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 16:59 pm
Posts: 156
Real Name: Dave
the smith and wesson model 10 ,570,000 of these pistols were purchased by the uk between 1942 and 1944 and used by almost all branches of the armed forces,they are normally stamped on the top of the frame with UNITED STATES PROPERTY and broad arrow stamped above the grips,the later ones had a parkerised finish and the serial number was prefixed with a V,the first ones suppiled were blued and had no prefix letter to the serial number.......hope this helps,i have just bought one and have been doing a bit of reading about them


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:35 am 
1000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 16:14 pm
Posts: 1790
Location: Wiltshire
Just because a book states they were used by all branches of the armed forces does not mean it is true.

Some phoptographic references would still be usefull.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:13 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 15:41 pm
Posts: 760
Real Name: Daniel (but Fruitcake will do really)
Group: F.I.R.E, AFRA
They were widely used in the Army, I know that. They were issued to tankies, officers etc.


Top
 

Offline
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 16:21 pm 
1000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 16:14 pm
Posts: 1790
Location: Wiltshire
As always it would be nice to see some photograghs.

All of the well known pictures feature Canadian Soldiers.


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: