WWIIReenacting.co.uk Forums

Uniting UK Re-enactors since 2003
 

It is currently Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:58 am

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: No.4 Knife bayonet
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 16:39 pm 
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 12:47 pm
Posts: 197
Location: Chandlers Ford, Hampshire
Real Name: Simon Caffrey
Group: 2nd Guards
I was in the Rifles Musuem in Winchester a few days ago and they have a WWII display with a No.4 with knife bayonet that looked like an SLR bayonet. I thought that can't be right and asked the chap in there but unfortuneatly he was just looking after the shop as it were and didn't know what I was on about.
Then I was reading this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield
"Towards the end of WWII, however, a bladed bayonet was developed and issued for the No 4 rifle, using the identical mount as the spike bayonet."
And pics here:
http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/in4.htm

Does anyone know if No.4 knife bayonets were actually issued to troops before the end of the war?

_________________
http://www.2ndguards.com
"The guts of the German army have been largely torn out by Russian valour and generalship." - Winston Churchill, speech to Parliament 1944


Top
 

Support the Forum
END OF YEAR OFFER - HALF PRICE SUPPORTER MEMBERSHIPS - CLICK THE BANNER TO READ MORE AND SUPPORT THE FORUM

Username
Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 16:44 pm 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 21:44 pm
Posts: 3121
Location: The North West Frontier
I have one, and for some reason my memory is saying they were made for the Navy, or that could be cobblers!

the simple one, not the one with the Handle.

_________________
505th PIR, 327th GIR, 359th IR, 70th TB, 168th IR, FSSF, USMC


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 16:50 pm 
3000+ Poster
User avatar
 YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:30 pm
Posts: 3863
Location: SE Kent
Real Name: Shane
From what i remember they were a very late war idea.

_________________
Friends? Family? The only thing you can rely on is your firearms.


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 18:05 pm 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 144
Hi Everyone

The No.9 MkI bayonet was basically a blade version of the No.4 Spike bayonet. I have seen many post war photos of these bayonets in British Army use. Mostly photos from the late 1940s through the Korean war and up to about the mid 1950s. (I think the reasoning behind its adoption was that the blade was considered superior to the spike, Also you can polish a No.9 bayonet, try polishing a No.4 spike :lol: )
I don`t know where the rumour came from that only the Navy used them, but front what I have seen there seems to be no truth to it.

The No.7 MkI L bayonet (that`s the one like the No.5 and SLR blade bayonets but with the knifty swivel part :P , so it can fit on the barrel) was actually only for the Sten MkV. Although it will fit the No.4 rifle it was never officially approved for use with the No.4 :o
The No.7 appeared and was used at roughly the same time as the No.9. (the No.7 was made in much lesser numbers than the No.9, it was claimed to be less effective, but really it cost too much to make, maybe thats why it was only approved for the Sten)

My No.9 bayonet was made in 1949. This is also the earliest dated one I have seen. My No.7 is dated 1947, I think, it just says `47 and I assume thats the date.

Fine for National Service or Korean war, but no good for WW2.

Hope this helps

Cheers :D


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:23 am 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
The No 7 bayonet (STEN with handle) was adopted for use by the Guards for ceremonial work, since it looks and polishes better. The Navy and other Army Units followed suit. It was never intended for use on the No 4, since it upset the ballistics of the Rifle when fitted. After a near accident, the No 7 was banned from use on the No 4.
The No 9 bayonet was adopted in June 1948, so any use in an impression before that date is totally wrong (see: Priest, The Spirit of the Pike: British Socket Bayonets of the 20th Century, Privately published, 2003)

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 14:56 pm 
4000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4785
My father did his National Service 53-55 with the RA,he had a spike bayonet and they WERE highly polished,as he demonstrated one day when i was out by wirewooling all the finish from the blade of my mint pigsticker and polishing it up :cry: :cry:
When i showed him my NO9 bayonet he said he had never seen one.I wandered onto some bayonet collectors website a while back amd he claimed that No9s were only used by the Navy-another so called expert maybe or is he correct :?

My No9 is unissued but ive never been able to identify a maker etc-various stamps-M over 42,what looks like a smaller number 3 inside a larger one and M49 on the top.No markings on the blade.


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 16:42 pm 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
Fair dos Richard, the Spike Bayonet was not meant to be polished, and was considered to be not as intimidating as a knife type bayonet (WWI thinking there). Your Father probably didn't see the No 9, as he wasn't front line Infantry (Infantry get the kit first, followed by the rest).
According to my sources, the No 9 was supposed to be used by all units equipped with the No 4 mk 2, not just the Navy (who generally got obsolete kit BTW) - modern research has dispelled the thinking on that one.....

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:08 am 
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 144
Hi Everyone

For those still unsure if the British Army used the No.9 Bayonet I have added three of the pictures I had mentioned.

The first picture is of soldiers of the Royal Watwicks searching for EOKA suspects in Nicosia. (Note the soldiers rifle with bayonet)
Image

The second picture is of Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders with a Vickers in Berlin, winter of 1955. (Note the soldier on the far right next to, bayonet next to waterbottle)
Image

The last photo is of three soldiers of the Durham Light Infantry, part of a night patrol in Korea 1953. (Note the soldier on the far right with No.9 fitted to his Sten MkV)
Image

Hope this helps

Cheers


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:30 am 
4000+ Poster
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4785
Excellent pics so the Navy theory is from another self proclaimed "expert" :lol: (came accross a bayonet expert colloectors forum!!!)


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:37 am 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
lipton wrote:
Excellent pics so the Navy theory is from another self proclaimed "expert" :lol: (came accross a bayonet expert colloectors forum!!!)
There's a lot of em about :lol: :wink: I have the DLI pic in the reference I mentioned, and Armourer Issue 61, plus the EOKA pic in The British Army in the 20th C......Thanks for posting them Cpl E

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject: Re: No.4 Knife bayonet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 19:54 pm 
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 19:49 pm
Posts: 446
Location: Devon
just thought i would resurect this topic, i have No9, No7 and a No5 bayonets, both the No7 and the No5 appear to have cut down SMLE bayonet scabbards whilst the No9 has no scabbard at all, i believe the No9 should have a metal scabbard would the metal scabbard be correct for all three bayonets?

_________________
http://2nddevons.110mb.com

2nd Battalion Devonshire Regiment
WWll LHA
swedebashers,proper job.
yer dont e go mangle moi wurzle.
woho ma wurzle
SEMPER FIDELIS
support company, 12th Devons, 6th Airborne Division


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject: Re: No.4 Knife bayonet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 20:06 pm 
Forum Legend
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:36 pm
Posts: 25060
Location: Hartlepool, awaiting a Zulu charge, cuppa in hand
Real Name: Ian Hannant
Group: Unable to commit
Tony,
check out the link in the first Post - it shows the bayonets and scabbards

_________________
Lo, There Do I See My Father
Lo, There Do I See My Mother, My Sisters And My Brothers
Lo, There Do I See My People, Back To The Beginning
Lo, There Do They Call To Me, And Beg Me To Take My Place
In The Halls Of Valhalla, Where the Brave Shall Live Forever

In the chaos of battle, when the ground beneath your feet is a slurry of blood, puke, p**s and the entrails of friends and enemies alike, it's easy to turn to the gods for salvation. But it's soldiers who do the fighting, and soldiers who do the dying, and the gods never get their feet wet.

One enemy is never enough, two is far too many
"Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid."
Jo Hukam


Top
 

Offline
 Post subject: Re: No.4 Knife bayonet
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 21:23 pm 
4000+ Poster
User avatar
 YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 16:28 pm
Posts: 4533
Location: scotland and in one trench to far
here we go-the spike bayonet in its crucfix type was on parade with the raf contingent for king faruqs wedding in the 50s and it polishes up lovely!

_________________
Member of the "20th Century Revisited"


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: