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 Post subject: My Carbines
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 21:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 am
Posts: 887
Location: Pontefract
Real Name: Barry Hampton
Group: Royal British Legion
I started reading the posts on here (especially from LLoyd) and now know I need advice!

Carbine 1. Barrel made by Buffalo Arms 9 - 43 (strangely I don't see this maker on the list of carbine manufacturers posted elsewhere on this topic).
Receiver by Inland Div number 5082689 (is this mid 44?)
Stock is stamped PJ in the strap cutout on the butt. 2 rivet holes on top stock piece
Foresight stamped EU
Originally came with bayonet lug band, post war sights (stamped HI) and flip safety. These have been replaced with correct wartime early band, push safety and flip sight.
QUESTIONs: 1. does the flip sight face towards the eye with the hollowed part of the sight facing or with just the pinhole facing?
2. what do the various stamps on metal work and woodwork indicate so far as wartime/postwar.

Carbine 2. Barrel made by Underwood 8 - 44
Receiver Inland Div 6392664 (about Aug 44 ?)
Foresight stamped PGB - the G may be C - not too clear
Rear sights are dial stamped H in a shield
Bayonet lug band and flip safety
Stock is stamped 2677601 in the section hidden by the top piece. Top piece is 4 rivet
The stock had been amended to take the M2 selector switch, but looks to be a pukka M1 stock.
QUESTIONS:1. What is correct for the year and what needs replacing? I note that some later wartime made carbines had the later features included at manufacture and not necessarilly post war rebuilds.
2. What is the "pot bellied" stock that is mentioned elsewhere for the M2? Is this similar to the postwar Ruger stock?
3. When did the Mark 2 style of band come into use - this is the same type as the one with bayonet lug, but minus the bayonet lug? - I've seen this listed on e-gunparts website, but it doesnt say when it came in.

I want to put one of these into a repro M1A1 folding stock that I have. If anyone has pics of what an original one should look like on the buttplate, folding stock, band type etc, it would be a great help.
Any help greatly appreciated. I would post pics but I'm a techno phobe (I can't do it!).

_________________
and then she said "forget the 6 feet and concentrate on the 7 inches!"-attributed to Mae West


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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 22:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
Posts: 6893
Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Nee Nar Nee Nar Nee Nar.......Carbine Police Calling..:-)

OK ..Lofty here ya go

1/ Buffalo Arms was sub contracted to make barrels for any maker in Late 43 ..so a Buffalo Arms barrel may be seen fitted to any maker carbine....thats why your carbine is a 5 million Inland (maker) with a sub contract barrel fitted.

2/ Flip sight faces so you look through the pinhole and the cone part faces the front sight..FFS be careful which way you install the flip sight...they are usually marked with an S so the "S" shows which way to install the sight.....the dovetail is only supposed to fit the sight one way.....

3/ 2 rivet handguard is correct.....4 rivets handguards were standardised in November 44 on late Winchesters and Inlands

4/ Stock will be a P-U not a P-J stock this is an Underwood stock...what type is it ?

5 / You have a Type 2 front sight ...(EU) made for Quality Hardware and IBM carbines (wartime)

6/ HI is a wartime very late type 3 rear sight..not post war

7/ 5 million Inland is approximatley July- August 1944

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

second carbine

1/ Barrel is August 1944.....6.3 million Inland is about December 1944...(Falls into the last alloted batch for M1A1 serial numbers)..:-)
this is definatley an armory rebuild.....no way would there be that gap in barrel/receiver dates..unless the barrel was flawed and sent back for refinishing or a "floor sweep" barrel..Inlands had their own barrels.

2/ Front sight is PO-B...this is an IBM front sight.

3/ H in a shield is late WW2 type 3 rear sights

4/ Types 1 to 4 stocks were often slot cut post war to modify carbines to M2 configuration

5/ "Pot Bellied" stocks are often refreed to as Type 5 stocks and have a pronounced "bulge" in front of the magazine well..unlike the flat bottomed stocks usually fitted to carbines...All pot bellied stocks were for M2 fully auto carbines....

6 Type 2 barrel bands if they are genuine are quite rare...not cut down type 3s (Bayonet Lugged Barrel bands)....and came in around the 5 million mark.....Inland.....( 5.6 million -Winchester) (6.1 million Underwood) (6 million Rock-Ola)(4.7 Million Quality Hardware) (6 Million Saginaw) (4.2 Million NPM) and (3.9 Million IBM)

so it may be a correct fitting on your 6.3 million Inland..:-)

Hope this helps mate

Regards

Lloyd

_________________
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 17:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 am
Posts: 887
Location: Pontefract
Real Name: Barry Hampton
Group: Royal British Legion
Cheers Lloyd, much appreciated. I can start to put them back together in as near correct as I can get them at this time. Still need to do some work on the woodwork to get them to a standard I'm happy with.

_________________
and then she said "forget the 6 feet and concentrate on the 7 inches!"-attributed to Mae West


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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 17:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:03 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Hereford City
Real Name: Danny Rees
Group: 16 Parachute Field Ambulance
2ad82recon wrote:
Nee Nar Nee Nar Nee Nar.......Carbine Police Calling..:-)


Back to the old days lol lol lol :lol:

Danny

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Proud Lifetime Member of the Herefordshire Light Infantry Museum.

Remembering the 36th Regiment of Foot, Herefordshire Militia, Herefordshire Rifle Volunteer Corps, Herefordshire Regiment, Hereford Light Infantry, Light Infantry and the Rifles.

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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 20:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 am
Posts: 887
Location: Pontefract
Real Name: Barry Hampton
Group: Royal British Legion
I dont mind carbine police or any other police come to that. I'd rather someone come up to me and point out what I've got wrong (in a friendly manner) as it's the only way to learn. You will always get the "couldn't care less" brigade. If I'm carrying a carbine with late sights, late safety and type 2 or 3 front band (see I picked up something) then I'll make damn sure I have a plausible explanation for it!

LLoyd you asked about what type the PU (Underwood) stock was - it's a straight M1 stock, never had cut out for selector switch on M2.

Strangely, having replaced the type 3 band with a type 1, the top wood piece now rattles and is slack - I shall have to sort this.

As the 6M series Inland (with the Underwood barrel) falls within the last lot of M1A1 serials, I am going to turn this into an M1A1 with type 2 band (I had a replica from an old Japan model arms M2 carbine) and use the PU stock for the 5M series Inland with 43 Buffalo barrel.

I found a good way to fill the M2 selector cut out is to use the wood veneer on a roll used as edging strip, and iron in or glue in - you get a wood finish that can be oiled and darkened down to match and isnt unsightly on top.

Getting some gun blue to sort out the metal work.

_________________
and then she said "forget the 6 feet and concentrate on the 7 inches!"-attributed to Mae West


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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 20:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 16:32 pm
Posts: 6893
Location: Great Bradley,Newmarket,Suffolk,England
Real Name: Lloyd Richards
Group: 2nd Armoured In Europe
Strangely, having replaced the type 3 band with a type 1, the top wood piece now rattles and is slack - I shall have to sort this !!!!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is common with repro type 1 bands.....soloution....take the sling swivel out of the band fully....and file a mm or so off of the screw loop making the band tighten a little further to clamp tighter..:-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep the faith Carbines rule brother..:-)

Regards

Lloyd

_________________
STOP ! STOP ! STOP ! THE BOOZE IS EXPLODING !..S/Sgt Costin to the rest of the Jeep Raid Convoy somewhere near Bricquebeq...Normandy 2010


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 Post subject: Re: My Carbines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 am
Posts: 887
Location: Pontefract
Real Name: Barry Hampton
Group: Royal British Legion
Thanks for the tip Lloyd. I went the other route and built the wood work back up on the top piece and added a metal strip to the other end to bulk this up. I think the main problem is that the top piece has been heavilly sanded at some time and is slack all over. It now fits as it should. I just have to strip the finish off the woodwork, address the dings and recesses, lightly sand, wirewool with white spirit to bring up the grain, stain if needed and wax or oil to finish.
I do like Carbines!!!! Mind you I like all guns, much to my wifes disapproval.
In my US bit, I have 1940 Garand, 2 M1 Carbines (1 in M1A1 format),Replica M2 Carbine (old Japan model guns ), Thompson 1928A1 with finned barrel (I have front pistol grip as well as the under barrel forestock), Thompson M1A1 (old spec), BAR but this is 50s dated, Smith and Wesson .38, M3 Greasegun, Replica Colt 1911, 2 Springfield 03s made by Remington in 42 (both live at present but I think I am getting them deac). I can't see me adding the heavy weapons!

_________________
and then she said "forget the 6 feet and concentrate on the 7 inches!"-attributed to Mae West


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